Pages 5-11 of this thread have a new home in Off-Route. I apologize to the few who actually made on-topic posts in those pages.

When I first came across this thread my initial thought was that the majority of people would probably be asking the question - How many adventures have I given up for family/career, etc.? Several people in this thread have already alluded to this. I would say mvs' perspective is from "the road less travelled" and I would gather is a much more difficult route than the traditional route of family/career. Like many I chose the latter, not the former, (primarily due to family) and I am content with that.

Eventually it does come down to being content with your choices, because typically some sacrifices have to be made. Yes, we would all like to have our cake and eat it too...it just usually doesn't work out that way for most people.

So since I choose to not be in the mountains each weekend, I get my mountain fix vicariously through the adventures/submittals of other SP members. Keep em' coming.

Joe White wrote:

mvs wrote:
A lot of us here have built our lives around the dream of climbing.

First, thanks for your post...it's very much appreciated! Second, not sure if you intentionally phrased this line "built our lives around the dream of climbing" as opposed to the alternative "built our lives on the dream of climbing"....but to me, the former seems preferable to the latter. There's a difference, right?

Definitely a difference! The former phrasing admits that there are many good things in life, and unless you have very special circumstances, it's more likely that climbing occupies a room in your house rather than that it be the house. We could also lose climbing at any time. Remembering that might allow us to be thankful for it but enjoy the rest of life as well. Thanks for the comment!

Bob Shiller.... Respectfully, I don't really like the moves you make as a moderator, at all, no way at all. I mean who do you think you are? Threads have a way of growing in there own organic way, and you sir, by moving stuff, deleting stuff, modifying stuff is just plain WRONG.

I bet you move or delete this too.

Guyzo I appreciate that Bob kept serious conversation in the thread in the main forum. I accept some blame that he had to do some work here because I opened this thread with 1) a philosophical topic that has borne fruit, and 2) some pretty angry comments about forum activities. I ended up adding fuel to a fire that didn't need it, and undermining the serious topic I wanted to talk about in the first place. Eventually recognizing my error, I assumed the whole thread would be chucked into Off-Route. Bob did me a favor and I have to say thanks for his editing service. I think the fork did allow the thread to keep growing in a positive way.

mvs.... I wish to thank you for putting up a choice topic.

We, as SP members, should not have our writings censored, in anyway. IMHO

The dude is just way off base.

You should feel like you are part of the "tribe" "community" whatever you want to call it.

If some people wish to show how shallow, ignorant, misinformed, racist and or stupid they really are through their posts I say let it happen.

We are all Grown ups, and having some "Big Brother" type lord over us and our writings is not necessary.

One of the main attractions of SP - to me- is the wide openness it has historically had, especially when you compare it to some of the heavily moderated sites.

Once a site gets moderated it looses its true identity and becomes an agenda driven, one dimensional place, much like political sites.

I really don't wish to loose what little freedom we do have.

GK

What "freedom" Guy?

Show me in the written SP rules where it states "Freedom" shall reign, so type and post away.... please show/ref me this "Freedom" you speak of.

Thanks.

PS: According to THIS, the word was given differently, a longass time ago. Maybe some should read the "RULES" before they join then post...

4. Editorial Control
SP staff maintains the right to perform edits on your submitted Content for the purpose of correcting factual errors, removing copyright violations, and changing or deleting any Content that is otherwise in violation of SP policies.

The SP website consists of "objects" (eg Mountains, Albums, Articles, Lists) contributed by members. Each "object" in SP has at least one "maintainer" - a person authorized to make edits to the object. You become the initial maintainer of objects you contribute. As maintainer, you are expected to ensure that the information provided for your object is useful, complete, accurate, and up-to-date.

You acknowledge that objects you contribute may be deleted or transferred to another maintainer in accordance with SP policies. You agree that in the event of a transfer, the new maintainer may modify material which you have contributed.

When you make contributions to an existing object, you are authorizing that object's maintainer (and future maintainers) to incorporate, modify, or reject your contribution as he or she sees fit.

You retain your copyright in your contributions, subject only to the editorial controls described here.





I learned the hard way that there aint no stinking "Freedom" here and if you do not follow the guidelines, the "Elves" will do as they feel is best for the site. It's their job to do so. And I respect them all for standing firm and doing their best to be consistent in their actions across the board in this regard.

I say either respect that/them in general, or eject yur ass outta here for not wanting to adapt nor willing to conform to the posted rules.

Rick.... wow, I interpret the rules, you just referenced, very differently.

SP, way back was very free and a lot more fun.

Now not much.

I feel that the Moderators are wrecking this site.

Heck can't I have my own opinion on the subject.

GK

C'mon Guy... get real.

"SP Policies" is what we in the Navy called the "Catch All" Article. In other words, it is up to the discretion of the Elves/Moderators to utilize it in order to maintain a level base of control on SP, IMO.

As I see it, this Thread aint no opinion. Rather, appears to be an insistence of action on your part.

I was banned over a dozen times for thinking that I was free to do as I wished.

I not once called for the dismissal of any Moderator after any of my banning's, regardless of their premise to do so.


I learned different the hard way and now do my best to follow the regs/rules.

AJ gave me some great personal general and very sound posting advise earlier this year before he departed, "If you feel that your post may be questionable/offensive, send it to the Elves first for evaluation prior to posting. It may save you some future grief."(Paraphrased)

I have done my best to follow this very sensible and good advise since then. It has indeed kept me out of trouble.

Does this mean I have caved in? Not one bit. It means that I learned to follow the rules that are posted and that I agreed to follow as my personal responsibility to do so, when I joined.

Just cuz I got a Ferrari, don't give me the right to go 175 in a 65 zone and get away with it.

Rick.... I am always real no fake stuff, I call things as I see them. If I am wrong I will admit it. This is how I live.

AJs advise is right on. I sometimes walk away from the computer and do something for a while, then I come back and re read what I wrote before pressing the "forget it" button. I think the Mods could at least do the same.

Maybe they could think a little bit before editing/moving stuff.

And to you, Rick I will say this, at one time you put up some of the most tasteless, hate filled stuff I have ever read. Some of the stuff you said to others made me sick and not proud to call myself a climber. But through it all, I knew that was not you- at all, just some internet persona you developed that always had something to say.

Peace and love to all.

Bottom line by me is that big oil and coal still run this country. They do not want any adverse mention of their lackeys, the local enviro club.

Threads go to deletion when:

1) there are mentions of the local enviro club in a way that is so true
2) their associated ethnic hate also becomes a topic
3) when posters are called out to climb, hike, or ski or engage in other non-motorized activity
4) the merits of green technology start to be disseminated

mattski wrote:

Re: What have you given up for climbing?

social life/money/mental stability

this seems sad matt....are you content with this?

Guy, aren't you just full of good tidings and judgement tonight.

My dearest apologies for making you sick and not fulfilling your expectations of how a climber should behave. Guess I just aint a "real climber".

Seems I have read this somewhere else on this site in the past.... unfkingbelievble.

Done.

mattski wrote:

this seems sad matt....are you content with this?

not at the moment, i need a couple of days off climbing might go fishing

I hear ya brotha. Enjoy!

The Chief wrote:Guy, aren't you just full of good tidings and judgement tonight.

My dearest apologies for making you sick and not fulfilling your expectations of how a climber should behave. Guess I just aint a "real climber".

Seems I have read this somewhere else on this site in the past.... unfkingbelievble.

Done.

Please don't get me wrong Rick, you sir are a real climber.

So please go back and read just what I wrote.

I figgured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.