I've definitely been on the other side of that. I refused to buy a nice rain jacket and got one off the bargin rack for 30 bucks or something. It was very light but very much not water proof. After 1 trip of being soaked through while being rained on for 2 hours I stepped up and bought a nice as rain jacket. Luckily my layers were good material and still held the heat. It's not fun being soaked when it's 50 degrees. I'll admit I'm a bit of a salley though.

Given, it's not a $600 rain jacket. I was pretty pissed at wasting the first 30 bucks. I think my new rain jacket was $110 or $120. Well worth the investment.

faster and lighter ...

most of this yuppie gear does not make you faster or lighter

example ... dead bird packs ... they dont weight any less than the competition, and frequently weight more ... some of them dont even have ice axe loops anymore ... it wont save you any weight

another example ... dead bird rain jackets ... the weight is the same or more as anyone elses ... yet they cost quite a bit more ... i got a 5 oz OR helium for cheap, the dead birdie stays at home ... it weights 1/4 as much ... will it last as long? ... well ill only put it on when its raining and in alpine i suspect if its really raining ill be descending

or how about them dead bird powershield softshells ... you know the ones that weight more than my belay jacket and you overheat in when carrying a pack on the way up .... a light fleece and windshirt is cheaper, lighter and more flexible ... or a weave softshell is more breathable and frequently cheaper

if you spend money to get ACTUAL performance and weight savings ... nothing wrong with that ... id buy a rocket tent in a heartbeat if i needed one

however if you buy something with a funky name that is functionally the same and weights the same as something you can buy at MEC/REI for half the price ... your choice, just don't pretend its any better or makes you any better

because some old geezer or hotshot kid who climbs better with in his $20 fleece will show you how wrong you are

This thread is so ridiculous. I like the assumption that if someone bought a $600 jacket they must have thought it would make them climb harder.

Get a life and stop chastising others. "Ooh let's slam those dead bird wearers! Those guys are so wrong. I am so right. Damn I'm awesome. Sweet."

And for the record. Yes, I own Arc'teryx. Yes, I own OR gear. Yes, I own MEC gear. Yes, I own a WM sleeping bag. Yes, I own Columbia. Yes, I own many other brands. And no, I don't shop at Wal-Mart.

And why the heck can't anybody say Arc'teryx? WTF?

bearbreeder wrote:example ... dead bird packs ... they dont weight any less than the competition, and frequently weight more ... some of them dont even have ice axe loops anymore ... it wont save you any weight

I will say my beautiful Osprey (Live Bird?) 85 enables me to carry more shit a lot further and with greater comfort than my Boy Scout Yucca Bag with the home-built external frame.

Yes, the live bird, good catch.....Osprey is the best value out there John and if you do rip it to shreds, they will be glad to replace it. Lightweight and functional is key. Their air speed suspension has yet to be surpassed. And you can get a multi day pack (35 atmos for example) for $100 on sale today if you wanted. Now that makes sense.

Alex, we have some cams we want you to take a look at! Special deal just for you mate.

Alex, we have some cams we want you to take a look at! Special deal just for you mate.

Sorry I don't buy cams from idiots.

No worries, we will brand it with a cool logo and hype it up so much.....you won't even know I am the one making the profit.

Well in that case I'd booty your crappy cams any day....

A friend gave me an Arc Teryx hardshell (used, but nice nonetheless). Free. I also own a beatup old Carhartt jacket (love that jacket, but not much use in a downpour). I paid $50 or so for the Carhartt -- way more expensive than the hardshell.

I wasn't aware of the fact that when I wear the deadbird I am an asshole, but when I wear the Carhartt I am a hardcore outdoorsman. Gee, I kinda felt like the same person either way -- I'll have to be more careful in the future. Thanks for setting me straight.

[If you didn't catch the sarcasm: it is an absurd proposition that you can tell what type of person I am (or anyone is) by their clothing alone. I've met a lot of great people in the mountains, and a few assholes -- couldn't tell you for the life what they were wearing, and really could care less. Expensive gear, cheap gear --it doesn't demonstrate the existence, or lack, of character. This whole discussion is ridiculous.]

John Duffield wrote:
I will say my beautiful Osprey (Live Bird?) 85 enables me to carry more shit a lot further and with greater comfort than my Boy Scout Yucca Bag with the home-built external frame.

i use a live birdie ... doesnt make me any better ... but if it wears out ill just send it back for another one

i wonder which taste better ... liv or dead birdies

Judging someone based on outward appearance is juvenile. At best.

Err, double post.

kevin trieu wrote:

jschrock wrote:Just in case y'all missed it...this guy Dow climbs a lot. And real hard too. He even climbs real hard a lot. He's also a hard alpine climber who climbs all the time ... and hard.

Just in case you missed it...or didn't get the memo or something.

but isn't it my right as a hard climber that climbs a lot, and all the time to shit on people? it is my god given right, dammit!

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/general_climbing/man_hit_by_wag_bag_in_yosemite/106980838

Urban legend or not? We report, you decide.

knoback wrote:"Gore-Tex is one of the biggest beefs I have. You've got a company that represents its product in advertisments as guaranteed waterproof. I go out with clients who have top-of-the-line 300$ Gore-Tex suits. They get wet. And I'm wearing a 50$ windshell that I've Scotch-guarded that keeps me dry longer than their stuff. Eventually, we both get wet and mine dries out like that. Theirs stays wet. And for anybody coming into the sport of climbing, Gore-Tex is a ten essential. It's not like, someone comes in and says, 'I'm going to splurge and buy this nice Gore-Tex jacket.' It's, 'I have to have this or I'm going to die.' ... I know this guy, wants to start a company. He's got some great ideas, and he totally agrees with me about Gore-Tex, but he's making the stuff out of Gore-Tex. He says, 'There's no way I can sell it unless I make it out of Gore-Tex. Gore spends millions of dollars on advertising. That's the other thing. The public is a problem. Every year, if the public wants what's new, whether it's simply a color or whatever, the companies are trying to outdo each other." - from an interview over 15 years ago with Jim Nelson for the book Cascade Voices. Not new, still true.

Dead on with this one. Something else you will notice, La Sportiva does it and happens to be my technical boot/climbing shoe manufacturer of choice. They will come out with a product, say the extremely light and versatile Trango S. The next available model the following year, they add gore tex. But of course with added weight and cost to the boot. The original model was exactly what it needed to be, light and dependable, great to climb 5.9 edges in, hold a crampon, warm enough for summer alpine, tough on scree, etc. When planning a successful model like this, no question it is planned in stages and tweaking it in year two becomes a reason folks abandon their yet wore out boots from last year for a new pair. This is just a good biz plan and I totally support capitalism. But a few us will always try to share with folks the truth, in this case that the non GTX boot does the same job that you hired it for to begin with, just as well as the GTX model. Same with two $100 technical jackets layered versus the one $600 jacket. Does not mean you have to follow our advice of course....and for complete irony...it benefits me financially if you don't.

I like Arc Teryx, even though I only own one pull over wicking layer made by them. I buy their popular stuff off SAC when its up then I sell it off ebay. I make around $100.00 a pop and usually more and never thought once of using that money for my own Arc Teryx brand item.