Disappointed to say the least....
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Dow Williams - Posts: 2345
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Disappointed to say the least....
instead of adding crap like chat, etc. to the forums (20 folks running in circles basically), it sure would be nice to keep the contributor/beta use side of this site up and going at a reasonable speed for those of us driving outside traffic to it. Priorities eh Matt?
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John Duffield, Josh Lewis, lcarreau, Luc, mrchad9, PellucidWombat, SKI
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Dow Williams - Posts: 2345
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
That is a good one Matt. I speak up once in a blue moon and you whine about my complaints being repetitive? Maybe it is worth paying closer attention.
The issue for me Matt (and others), mostly just low life climbing beta contributors, not porn stars or schizophrenics with imaginary friends in PnP, is that we are stymied to see misc add ons to the site that offer no real value to providing beta to those perusing the Internet for same.
Not only is the site becoming too slow to be worthy of use for beta anymore, it is too slow for folks like myself, trying to revamp the Ice Climbing Forum for example after being asked to do so by the previous owner. To help contributors maintain a compilation of all the waterfall ice that has been climbed by members on SP....one would think that priority would rank a bit higher than the front page nepotism bs of adding more crap (best photo I could get all my friends to vote on; best article regarding the origin of the word "climb"; best five european hill tops reached by tram)....adding games and chat functions?????????????
All a bunch of bs compared to someone wanting to get out and go ice and/or rock climbing and trying to load a page describing conditions, etc. But hey, just keep pissing on the climbing folks and what this site use to be about, never much compared to Supertaco or Mountain Project....but a bit anyway. When is the last time Radek has added anything? There are others who quit as well. Keep it up Matt, you are doing a terrific job. Since you feel I complain too much, I will try to not post again in site feedback for another couple of years. Sorry to bother you.
The issue for me Matt (and others), mostly just low life climbing beta contributors, not porn stars or schizophrenics with imaginary friends in PnP, is that we are stymied to see misc add ons to the site that offer no real value to providing beta to those perusing the Internet for same.
Not only is the site becoming too slow to be worthy of use for beta anymore, it is too slow for folks like myself, trying to revamp the Ice Climbing Forum for example after being asked to do so by the previous owner. To help contributors maintain a compilation of all the waterfall ice that has been climbed by members on SP....one would think that priority would rank a bit higher than the front page nepotism bs of adding more crap (best photo I could get all my friends to vote on; best article regarding the origin of the word "climb"; best five european hill tops reached by tram)....adding games and chat functions?????????????
All a bunch of bs compared to someone wanting to get out and go ice and/or rock climbing and trying to load a page describing conditions, etc. But hey, just keep pissing on the climbing folks and what this site use to be about, never much compared to Supertaco or Mountain Project....but a bit anyway. When is the last time Radek has added anything? There are others who quit as well. Keep it up Matt, you are doing a terrific job. Since you feel I complain too much, I will try to not post again in site feedback for another couple of years. Sorry to bother you.
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lcarreau - Posts: 4226
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
It's all about setting priorities, and making good use of your time.
Do you want to be bombarded by information, or chat away your hours in an imaginary environment; far removed from the reality of struggling through an imperfect world ???
I think Pink Floyd said it best :
"Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day,
Fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way ..
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town,
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way ..."
Do you want to be bombarded by information, or chat away your hours in an imaginary environment; far removed from the reality of struggling through an imperfect world ???
I think Pink Floyd said it best :
"Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day,
Fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way ..
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town,
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way ..."
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."
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lcarreau - Posts: 4226
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
Montana Matt wrote:The miscellaneous add-ons that have been added recently were things that people requested that didn't take a lot of time to implement, which is a key factor in determining what I work on since I have a full time job and a hobby business that require the majority of my time.
Respectfully speaking, HOW MANY people actually "requested" the chatting feature ???
Was it a very small minority of the beta-seeking hikers/climbers who actually make up this Site ???
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."
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MoapaPk - Posts: 7780
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
Dow--
A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.
On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.
And he's doing it for free.
A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.
On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.
And he's doing it for free.
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Dow Williams - Posts: 2345
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
I am not on SP to make friends Matt, it does not represent a social network for me personally, so when I have a legitimate gripe, I get right to the point as I would in any business meeting I have ever been involved in. Whether anyone approves or not, this straight forward, no bs approach has served me well through the years. My level of abrasiveness with you would be shared with anyone who has the responsibility you have, whether you really want same (responsibility) or not, obviously I cannot answer for you.
The bottom line is at the present moment you are responsible. I have sat by and observed many of the other members beg you for fixes regarding the slowness of this site. Then I observe you making adjustments to the site without fixing a serious imperative issue. In my opinion, you are not prioritizing correctly. One does not do things first just because they take less time. Rather you fix things that are costing the site to lose members and users, both equally important resources for the site and both far outweigh the 20+/- members in pnp who have supposedly asked for bells and whistles like chat and games.
Based on what I have sat back and observed, I have no idea how to handle you in the delicate fashion you desire. I am making a black and white business request of you. Are you going to fix it? are your responsible for fixing it? are you capable of fixing it? would you rather contributors like myself move on versus hold you accountable that it be fixed? These are not offensive questions for my generation, however, I realize that many who are younger need more buffering in today's world. This is not an attack Matt. My time has certain value and either SP warrants it or it does not. There are plenty of folks to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you are doing, but at the current performance of this site, that would be disingenuous bs, and I believe you know better.
The bottom line is at the present moment you are responsible. I have sat by and observed many of the other members beg you for fixes regarding the slowness of this site. Then I observe you making adjustments to the site without fixing a serious imperative issue. In my opinion, you are not prioritizing correctly. One does not do things first just because they take less time. Rather you fix things that are costing the site to lose members and users, both equally important resources for the site and both far outweigh the 20+/- members in pnp who have supposedly asked for bells and whistles like chat and games.
Based on what I have sat back and observed, I have no idea how to handle you in the delicate fashion you desire. I am making a black and white business request of you. Are you going to fix it? are your responsible for fixing it? are you capable of fixing it? would you rather contributors like myself move on versus hold you accountable that it be fixed? These are not offensive questions for my generation, however, I realize that many who are younger need more buffering in today's world. This is not an attack Matt. My time has certain value and either SP warrants it or it does not. There are plenty of folks to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you are doing, but at the current performance of this site, that would be disingenuous bs, and I believe you know better.
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Dow Williams - Posts: 2345
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
MoapaPk wrote:Dow--
A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.
On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.
And he's doing it for free.
Thanks for your input. Matt should not be doing this for free. I would sure like to think his personal and/or business time would be more valuable to him than that. But if that is the total investment being put into the site, Matt working for free, by himself, then anyone in this biz who wants or needs a job, might want to get in contact with me. Because there are those of us who would pay to have it done right.
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mrchad9 - Posts: 4545
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
MoapaPk wrote:Dow--
A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.
On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.
And he's doing it for free.
That is bull. You think the WHOLE INTERNET has slowed down?
I've used lots of sites over the previous year, and SP over the previous several years. This is the only site that has slowed down a noticible amount, and at times it is quite significant. Sometimes even a simple task like voting on someone's mountain page can take a few seconds to register. That is NOT normal for a website, and something is going on here that is unique to this site.
(btw, isn't Matt a part owner? That would imply it isn't exactly 'for free', if the answer is yes. But I am not sure, so that is an actual question.)
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lcarreau - Posts: 4226
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
If "20 or so" people who used to post in PnP wanted to have a chat feature installed and implemented, would that wish be granted if it took little to no time to have it done ???
What is the current membership of SP? Isn't it close to 52,000 people now
So, wouldn't 20 folks out of 52,000 folks be considered a "minority ???"
What is the current membership of SP? Isn't it close to 52,000 people now
So, wouldn't 20 folks out of 52,000 folks be considered a "minority ???"
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."
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isostatic - Posts: 4284
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Not Disappointed at All!
We are many on SummitPost who are very thankful to Matt for all the work he has done to the site, and particularly for the recent changeover to phpBB3, which has been a great improvement of the site. We appreciate the time he spends on the site, and we are certain that he in due time will find what is sometimes making the site slow.
Many thanks, Matt!
Many thanks, Matt!
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Chris - Posts: 1405
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
I still love you Matt. 
PS: It was -20F here this AM... you may have made a good move. Brrrrrr.
PS: It was -20F here this AM... you may have made a good move. Brrrrrr.
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Chris - Posts: 1405
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
Montana Matt wrote:Ouch! I certainly don't miss that weather though! Did you get your run in today with that cold? It's 55°F or so here today...perfect winter weather in my opinion. I'm going to try to get off this computer here in a bit and hit the trails behind the house.
Yeah, did 4 last night @ -13F... have to keep the streak alive. Wasn't too bad except my eyes kept freezing open. Have a great run!! 55 sounds awesome... a little jealous here.
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Dow Williams - Posts: 2345
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
Well, lets not beat a dead horse, so I will pick out anything that I am perplexed about or could answer back for you.
Who is responsible for fixing the site if you, as minority owner, are not? I find that a bit alarming. Thanks for the heads up.
So we are clear, I would believe it quite fool hardy of you to maintain this site for free. If you paid $$$ for your minority stake or were given it in exchange for maintaining the site, then it is not free of course. You could get paid for this kind of Internet maintenance work if you are good at and want to get paid. Like tomorrow. We do have paid advertisers paying for the opportunity to sell products to folks perusing the the contributors beta on summitpost. All the contributors ask in return is that issues be fixed in a timely manner, not overnight, just not six months either.
The baby boomer generation includes years 1946-1964. You seem to attempt to imply I might have ulterior motives. I believe you might struggle to find one. Hard to find someone who puts more time into the site than I do, including yourself. Obviously I would like it to succeed. But currently it is not. It is floundering. We have lost valuable members who have lost interest due to the lack of innovation and maintenance at the site. We are now losing users because the site is to slow. I get feedback when it is good, but of course I get it when it is bad as well.
The sarcasm comment which offended you was in direct response to you implying immediately that you had no idea why I needed to start a new thread regarding the sites performance. You appear bothered by the "necessity" of a thread started by me, a serious climbing contributor who has spent almost zero time in the forums discussing such matters. I haev laid off all this time, showed incredible patience. Your comment deserved much more sarcasm then I let fly in my opinion.
Well the disingenuous pats will be forth coming as I predicted whether you care for them or not, just the nature of this site. But as I also said, I know you know better. I consider you a more sincere individual than some of these Internet personalities. I do not consider you a peon nor did I imply such. But I damn well need to know if this is the total of the effort that is going into SP, chat rooms, games, etc, while it cost me more time to contribute each passing day. Like I said before, I imagine my time investment actually rivals yours.
Montana Matt wrote:Dow Williams wrote:are your responsible for fixing it?
No, not really, but I want to.
Who is responsible for fixing the site if you, as minority owner, are not? I find that a bit alarming. Thanks for the heads up.
Montana Matt wrote:Dow Williams wrote:are you capable of fixing it?
Yes, given enough time I believe I can fix it. But time is money and I need to spend my time making money paying my bills first and foremost.
So we are clear, I would believe it quite fool hardy of you to maintain this site for free. If you paid $$$ for your minority stake or were given it in exchange for maintaining the site, then it is not free of course. You could get paid for this kind of Internet maintenance work if you are good at and want to get paid. Like tomorrow. We do have paid advertisers paying for the opportunity to sell products to folks perusing the the contributors beta on summitpost. All the contributors ask in return is that issues be fixed in a timely manner, not overnight, just not six months either.
Dow Williams wrote:These are not offensive questions for my generation
Montana Matt wrote:Nor for mine (being born 13 years apart puts us in a different generation? I thought we were both Gen X?). I was not offended by any of those 4 questions and I don't think it's a generational thing here Dow. I think many people would feel the same about how you communicated in this thread if they were on the receiving end of it. It was your text like the following that I didn't understand the necessity of:
Dow Williams wrote:Keep it up Matt, you are doing a terrific job. Since you feel I complain too much, I will try to not post again in site feedback for another couple of years. Sorry to bother you.
The baby boomer generation includes years 1946-1964. You seem to attempt to imply I might have ulterior motives. I believe you might struggle to find one. Hard to find someone who puts more time into the site than I do, including yourself. Obviously I would like it to succeed. But currently it is not. It is floundering. We have lost valuable members who have lost interest due to the lack of innovation and maintenance at the site. We are now losing users because the site is to slow. I get feedback when it is good, but of course I get it when it is bad as well.
The sarcasm comment which offended you was in direct response to you implying immediately that you had no idea why I needed to start a new thread regarding the sites performance. You appear bothered by the "necessity" of a thread started by me, a serious climbing contributor who has spent almost zero time in the forums discussing such matters. I haev laid off all this time, showed incredible patience. Your comment deserved much more sarcasm then I let fly in my opinion.
Dow Williams wrote:There are plenty of folks to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you are doing, but at the current performance of this site, that would be disingenuous bs, and I believe you know better.
Montana Matt wrote:I'm not doing this looking for a pat on the back. But I'm also not doing this to be talked to as if I'm a peon.
Well the disingenuous pats will be forth coming as I predicted whether you care for them or not, just the nature of this site. But as I also said, I know you know better. I consider you a more sincere individual than some of these Internet personalities. I do not consider you a peon nor did I imply such. But I damn well need to know if this is the total of the effort that is going into SP, chat rooms, games, etc, while it cost me more time to contribute each passing day. Like I said before, I imagine my time investment actually rivals yours.
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lcarreau - Posts: 4226
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
Dow Williams wrote:The baby boomer generation includes years 1946-1964.
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."
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MoapaPk - Posts: 7780
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....
mrchad9 wrote:MoapaPk wrote:A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth.
That is bull. You think the WHOLE INTERNET has slowed down?
Read what I actually wrote; which consists of speculation why some sites slow down. I said a LOT; I didn't say a majority, and certainly didn't imply this was an internet-wide phenomenon. You'll note that the servers and hosting for SP changed radically a while back. The company that used to host my site became slower and slower and slower, till virtually every ftp session was aborted. Then the company was bought over, the servers radically upgraded, and now I'm just whipping along. But since 2008, a lot of companies are searching for other economies, and sometimes the trades don't make things faster.
I've used lots of sites over the previous year, and SP over the previous several years. This is the only site that has slowed down a noticible amount, and at times it is quite significant. Sometimes even a simple task like voting on someone's mountain page can take a few seconds to register. That is NOT normal for a website, and something is going on here that is unique to this site.
And I've used a lot that have slowed way down, including three meetups for outdoor activities, the local NWS server, and many others. That isn't the whole internet... but those were your words ("WHOLE INTERNET"), not mine.
(btw, isn't Matt a part owner? That would imply it isn't exactly 'for free', if the answer is yes. But I am not sure, so that is an actual question.)
Wow, he's a part-owner! I bet he's making money hand-over-fist! Remember the thread estimating how much money SP was making? Several on-line services were cited that purported to show (in application) that SP should be a real money-maker. I applied those estimators to a site, for whom I knew the book-keeper. The estimators had the site earning ~$30000/yr. Actual net income (no salary subtracted): $300.
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