Mount Humphreys Arizona

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Steven Cross

 
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by Steven Cross » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:44 am

Agassiz was closed off sometime in the mid to late 80's. So, it was once legal to climb. There is a climbers trail that leads to the summit. There really is no reason why this trail cannot be used. I have heard that there is more to it then the rare plant. And that it is one of the Navajo's Sacred Mountains. Due to respect for them only Humphry's is open.
Anyway, I've always thought that protecting a rare plant was a really dumb excuse. One trail is not going to make it go extinct.

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Alex Wood

 
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by Alex Wood » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:48 pm

Andinistaloco wrote:
Woodzy wrote:I was at the Lake Mary Ranger Station and was talking to the ranger there about Agassiz. I asked him if it is alright to climb it even though it isn't completely with snow? He told me that it would be alright to hike it the way it was when we climbed. I still wasn't fully convinced, but I had a friend tell me that there had to be a foot of snow all over Agassiz to hike it and I asked the ranger that, but he assured me that that wasn't true. Sure, you have to have more then just a little bit of snow to climb it, but even though it didn't look like much, we were easily able to stay on snow (even some post-holing) the whole way past the "off limits sign". The only part that didn't have snow was on the actual summit. We stayed on the north side or right on the ridge the whole time. I do respect the laws and the environment. As far as I know, I did nothing wrong.


Well, if a ranger told you that, then I suppose it's not your fault. But I'd be interested in knowing the name of the ranger; they ought to know better. Most local climbers and hikers know about the Agassiz closure.


Well I would like to vouch for myself and say that I knew about the Agassiz closure. It was simply beacuase that I got different information from the ranger that I climbed the peak. And beside, the rule is that you have to do it on snow, right? Well I did it on snow.

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lasvegaswraith

 
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by lasvegaswraith » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:00 pm

Day Hiker wrote:
Andinistaloco wrote:Hiking an existing trail which doesn't have vegetation on it due to heavy traffic is one thing. Stomping around off trail when there's not enough snow cover (or none at all) is another thing entirely.


If there is a designated trail, nobody would need to stomp around off-trail like a wandering idiot. So I don't see why a reasonable solution would not be as follows:

Construct one single, well-marked, 2-foot-wide trail for the whopping three quarters of a mile between the Humphreys trail and Agassiz' summit. Then tell people to stay on the trail and not wander all over the fucking landscape up there.

People would be much more likely to follow that rule than the current one that tells them they can't hike their desired peak. And the plant's range up there might be small, but it can't possibly be less than a couple orders of magnitude larger than the area that would be taken up by a 2-foot-wide, 3/4-mile-long trail. So the trail can't possibly destroy a significant fraction of the plant's range.

From what I saw when I hiked Humphreys, it's basically pretty moderate terrain up there, in other words, relatively wide, relatively big. So this plant's range is not just a 15-foot-wide strip on some narrow ridge that would be decimated by a trail. Correct?

Anyway, until something has changed with the rule or I manage to encounter snow conditions, I personally wouldn't consider hiking to Agassiz. I got to look over at it from the ridge when I did Humphreys in the summer of 2004, so that's probably the most of it I will get. But it just seems absurd that hikers sticking to one narrow path would cause the destruction of this plant.


Well said...

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MoapaPk

 
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by MoapaPk » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:21 pm

Alpine plant issue:
IIRC, the terrain above timberline is pretty much broken rock, which tends to discourage off-trail excursions. But I do remember the alpine plants in the Adirondacks took a beating, probably because the tops of those mountains were devoid of broken rock, and people wandered all over the place. I don't recall any alpine plant (in the Adks) going extinct from foot traffic though, probably because the prime growing territory -- inverted bogs -- was also unpleasant for walking.

Sacred mountain issue:
Restricting travel to winter makes sure that a lot fewer people go there, cuts down the water bottles and trash left behind, and generally tends to ensure the few climbers are respectful.

But with USFS budgets on the decline, I doubt any new trails will be made unless they are made by volunteers. The BLM/USFS/NPS bureaucracies are massive and glacial; I recall it took about 20 years for the park service to put up a fence on the side of Valle Grande NM to satisfy a requirement for the ranchers; and before the fence was erected, no one was allowed to use the land, which was part of the park.

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lcarreau

 
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by lcarreau » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:03 am

Woodzy wrote:
Well I would like to vouch for myself and say that I knew about the Agassiz closure. It was simply beacuase that I got different information from the ranger that I climbed the peak. And beside, the rule is that you have to do it on snow, right? Well I did it on snow.



Was Big Brother watching you on your recent trip to Agassiz?

If he wasn't watching, then don't worry 'bout it !!!

If he WAS watching, then two "Men In Black" will soon appear at your place of residence.

You'll be required to fill out some forms in triple duplicate, and you'll be lectured on the
endangered status of plants and the importance of becoming politically correct.

Dude, you could possibly get 10 years at the most !!!



:shock: :shock: :lol: :shock: :shock:

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Alex Wood

 
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by Alex Wood » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:26 am

lcarreau wrote:
Woodzy wrote:
Well I would like to vouch for myself and say that I knew about the Agassiz closure. It was simply beacuase that I got different information from the ranger that I climbed the peak. And beside, the rule is that you have to do it on snow, right? Well I did it on snow.



Was Big Brother watching you on your recent trip to Agassiz?

If he wasn't watching, then don't worry 'bout it !!!

If he WAS watching, then two "Men In Black" will soon appear at your place of residence.

You'll be required to fill out some forms in triple duplicate, and you'll be lectured on the
endangered status of plants and the importance of becoming politically correct.

Dude, you could possibly get 10 years at the most !!!



:shock: :shock: :lol: :shock: :shock:


:D

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Andinistaloco

 
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by Andinistaloco » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:27 pm

Day Hiker wrote:Anyway, until something has changed with the rule or I manage to encounter snow conditions, I personally wouldn't consider hiking to Agassiz. I got to look over at it from the ridge when I did Humphreys in the summer of 2004, so that's probably the most of it I will get. But it just seems absurd that hikers sticking to one narrow path would cause the destruction of this plant.


It's not one narrow path that causes the problems... it's folks who decide they don't give a shit and go stomping around up there anyway, off trail. It pisses me off that folks from Flag - with the peak in their backyard - decide they're going to be punks and do it anyway, when all they have to do is wait for a good day.

I think your solution's a good one. Trail from the saddle to the top of Agassiz, and you eliminate most of the problems. Steve has a good point about it being sacred to some of the native folks here, though I don't know how you'd solve that problem.

jhodlof wrote:The Kachina Peaks have been closed to visitors by the typically big-brotherish Forest Service. Due to Avalanche risk, the government is telling it's citizens that it knows best and they can't go on to their land to protect them from themselves.


Heard about this. Heard they had to go rescue a few dumbasses and so decided to shut it down for everyone. What a load o' shit.

Woodzy wrote:Well I would like to vouch for myself and say that I knew about the Agassiz closure. It was simply beacuase that I got different information from the ranger that I climbed the peak. And beside, the rule is that you have to do it on snow, right? Well I did it on snow.


No, there has to be enough snow, and there clearly wasn't enough when you did it. Your friend who gave you the 1' rule had it right.

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eferesen

 
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by eferesen » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:55 am

Heading out to Humphreys this Saturday morning before the skiers take all the parking spots at snowbowl.

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Andinistaloco

 
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by Andinistaloco » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:14 pm

Early's definitely the way to do it. Not only do you get a spot, but you can get out before the ridiculous mass exodus down 89a.

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Andinistaloco

 
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by Andinistaloco » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:24 pm

jhodlof wrote:
Andinistaloco wrote:Early's definitely the way to do it. Not only do you get a spot, but you can get out before the ridiculous mass exodus down 89a.

I prefer late. I like to start around 11 and get down around 5 to 6. There is no traffic if you get down that late. I'm doing a moon lit descent tonight, so I won' be down until 8 or so.


Another way to do it's in the middle of the night - good warmup for harder stuff. I'd generally head up 'round three or so in the morning and get down as folks were starting to show up.

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Andinistaloco

 
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by Andinistaloco » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:44 pm

jhodlof wrote:
Andinistaloco wrote:
jhodlof wrote:
Andinistaloco wrote:Early's definitely the way to do it. Not only do you get a spot, but you can get out before the ridiculous mass exodus down 89a.

I prefer late. I like to start around 11 and get down around 5 to 6. There is no traffic if you get down that late. I'm doing a moon lit descent tonight, so I won' be down until 8 or so.


Another way to do it's in the middle of the night - good warmup for harder stuff. I'd generally head up 'round three or so in the morning and get down as folks were starting to show up.

Do you do it during a full moon? With snow on the ground it's pretty spectacular.

I put together a trip report. It's mostly pics
http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=593093


Yeah, that's one of my favorite times to go. Timing it so you hit sunrise from the top of Agassiz is pretty great too.

Nice shot of Agassiz and Fremont.

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eferesen

 
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by eferesen » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:28 am

Just did Humphreys and Agassiz. Getting out of snow bowl and into town took almost one and half hours. It was a great day although Humphreys has about 9 people on the summit.

http://picasaweb.google.com/eferesen/Hu ... z20100130#

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Castlereagh

 
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by Castlereagh » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:24 pm

question for the locals: how well packed is the trail below timberline. I'm thinking of trying the two in March; mostly worried about losing the trail in the woods.

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Castlereagh

 
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by Castlereagh » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:00 pm

Is the Dutchman visible in the picture? I'd just be worried about getting lost in the trees, but I guess if you keep going up you can't miss the ridge.

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McCannster

 
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by McCannster » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:27 pm

We will be passing by Humphreys around May 10th-ish and we'd like to give it a go. I hear that this is pretty much the worst time to do Humphreys because of terrible winds. So, how bad is "terrible"? Like, miserable winds that won't stop making your drawstring on your hood hit you in the face, or blow you right off the mountain bad?

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