mountainsandsound wrote: calling it a "freak accident" makes me think those skiiers believed the risks were minimal on that day. They were not.

I agree. Nothing freak about avalanches coming down a natural avalanche path in extreme avalanche conditions particularly when there are humans there to trigger them.

I was up in some fairly sheltered areas around snoqualmie pass on saturday and I observed rapid wind loading in excess of 20 inches with winds gusting around 40-50 mph. This was before the biggest storms moved through.
I think the people involved were experienced enough that they probably knew the risks and were willing to make the chance. Not what I would do, but I have a pretty low tolerance for my own safety margin in the mountains.

Mountainjeff wrote:I think the people involved were experienced enough that they probably knew the risks and were willing to make the chance.

I think I would agree with that, I find it hard to believe they would not have known. I suppose the way you portray it to the media is a lot different than the way you discuss it with your partners. I just think it's damaging to take that position in front of a general public that doesn't understand wilderness recreation.

mountainsandsound wrote:This story started rubbing me the wrong way, especially the "freak accident" part.

That, and I have this vague feeling that some state congressman is days away from proposing a law that anyone not wearing an ABS is liable for rescue costs. The media has certainly taken that aspect and run with it.

To be fair, I think this whole thing has been taken out of context. Freak accident, taking precautions - these probably referred to the way the avalanche pulled in people who thought they were safely out of the slide path, and not the slide itself.

mountainsandsound wrote: I just think it's damaging to take that position in front of a general public that doesn't understand wilderness recreation.

Yeah, I think MOST people will have a different reaction (perspective or opinion?) when they're placed in front of a camera.

I mean, look what happens when a politician is placed in front of a camera ..

I'll throw out the fact that I have little experience in avy country, but I'll say this much; some people should not go out of bounds or mess around in the backcountry during the winter. Those people are the ones that A) don't know how to read the slopes for signs of imminent failure B) don't know the difference between optimal conditions and dangerous conditions and C) dont have at least some equipment to dig yourself or your dying buddy out of the debris. If you fail to meet those requirements, stick to the F'n frequented areas until you can meet those requirements. Until you can, I'm not gonna feel bad when you die because YOURE ASKING FOR IT.

The avalanche that killed those 4 people was not freak. It was predictable. Just as predictable as afternoon thunderstorms in the summer. Except when you get caught unexpectedly, you die.

.

acegrulla wrote:a bit about two of the folks who you all seem to know so much about.
A HUGE loss to our PNW BC ski community. They knew the risks and took them. No reason to point fingers as if there must be "blame" to be found.
http://youtu.be/h7hFmguHkZI
http://youtu.be/SuDR5_qbwPQ
http://youtu.be/NDvHL8zQoXM
Please commence the blame and bickering.

Thanks for a little positive remembrance of those who lost their lives. RIP Chris, you'll be missed buddy.

Eric

acegrulla wrote:a bit about two of the folks who you all seem to know so much about.

A HUGE loss to our PNW BC ski community. They knew the risks and took them. No reason to point fingers as if there must be "blame" to be found.

http://youtu.be/h7hFmguHkZI

http://youtu.be/SuDR5_qbwPQ

http://youtu.be/NDvHL8zQoXM

Please commence the blame and bickering.

Just another example of how even those we come to admire and claim as the "Best", can falter and make a bad choice.

It's not the first time nor will it be the last.

No blame... just fact.

The Fact that this scenario will play again, sadly, and more will succumb to the realities of Mother Nature and her unforgiving power.

All it takes is once and it's all she wrote.

We must all remember that the next time we chose to push the envelope.

End of story.





"Each and every time I paddle out to face the incredible Jaws of the Dinosaur, I surrender to the fact that it may just be my last."
Laird Hamilton



PS: At least they all died doing what they loved the most.... For that, I commend them.

The gal who survived.

Accomplishments
2009- Female Line of the Year, Freeride World Tour
2009- 1st Place, Nissan Tram Face, Freeride World Tour
2008- World Champion, Freeride World Tour
2008- 1st Place, Verbier Extreme
2008- 1st Place, Nissan Russian Adventure, Freeride World Tour
2008- 1st Place, Tignes, Freeride World Tour
Films
2009- The Levitation Project's "Team Edit"
2008- Rage Film's "Down Days" and "Such is Life"

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6014919

acegrulla wrote:The gal who survived.

Accomplishments
2009- Female Line of the Year, Freeride World Tour
2009- 1st Place, Nissan Tram Face, Freeride World Tour
2008- World Champion, Freeride World Tour
2008- 1st Place, Verbier Extreme
2008- 1st Place, Nissan Russian Adventure, Freeride World Tour
2008- 1st Place, Tignes, Freeride World Tour
Films
2009- The Levitation Project's "Team Edit"
2008- Rage Film's "Down Days" and "Such is Life"

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6014919

So.....

What's your point?

Well, seems to be plenty of low hang'n fruit to pick, the path of least resistance...

It's easy to jump on board and declare that "I would have...," from what I've read I could easily do so myself. However, I was not there to witness the specific conditions at that specific time.

We've all taken chances that we look back upon and question. By my own reckoning, I know that I certainly have. Some would say that if you're not taking chances, you're not climbing. Extreme skiers are no different. Risk/reward, as others have alluded to.

Obviously, I was no witness to the weather event(s) which created the conditions at the time. Yet from looking at the avi forecast (NWAC) for SP on Sunday, I see "considerable" danger below 7k, "High," above. Seems they were well below 7k with little above them from what I've seen. Of course this is only one of many factors to consider, but it is a point of accuracy if the forecast I read was correct and the elevations around the immediate SP ski area are as I've read them to be.

That aside, I know nothing of the ski area in question so many of the other bugaboos that come with snow pack analysis come into question. Were they able to dig a pit on the actual slope they skied ? Was there a slope near with a similar aspect, angle, level of exposure... where they could have dug a pit before dropping in ? I have no idea what the top of that chute looks like, but I have dropped into more than a few narrow, steep and deep slots (BITD) where digging a pit was out of the question.

The obvious is obvious... If you need to activate a beacon, you've made a mistake. But rather than make for the low hang'n fruit, it would seem more productive to learn all that can be learned from this incident and apply it to our own decision making process.

RIP. Condolences to those who've lost.

It has nothing to do with your posts Chief.

This was my point and why I have posted what I have.

some people should not go out of bounds or mess around in the backcountry during the winter. Those people are the ones that A) don't know how to read the slopes for signs of imminent failure B) don't know the difference between optimal conditions and dangerous conditions and C) dont have at least some equipment to dig yourself or your dying buddy out of the debris. If you fail to meet those requirements, stick to the F'n frequented areas until you can meet those requirements. Until you can, I'm not gonna feel bad when you die because YOURE ASKING FOR IT.

That post is PURE ignorance.

"OVER AND OUT!"

They each made the conscience decision to put it all on the line and possibly pay the ultimate price that day.

As did this "Great"




One reason some of us play hard at this game.


Another reason why some of us have hung up the gloves and moved onto something different.

Again, I commend each and everyone of these four for going out and giving their all to what they love and enjoy the most.

acegrulla wrote:That post is PURE ignorance.

Suuuuuuuuuure. Attend a seminar and hear the exact same things.