Up to this point have only had to use one my Grivel Jorassess for mtns I've done. But now I'm headed down to Bolivia to climb Ancohuma and Illampu.

So I bought a set of CAMP Cassin X-Alp axes. I then happened to see their ALPAX Special axes and wondering if they might have been a better purchase. I don't see myself getting into super technical ice climbing but will be on pitches of up to 65 degrees in Bolivia and I'm sure it will excite me to climb some more.

Let me know what you think is a better all-round set up. Thanks!

I am not personally familiar with Cassin products, but generally, I find one technical piolet and one hammer to be an excellent combination on mountains that are not super technical (i.e. less than vertical ice, no technical dry tooling). An example would be Petzl Sum'Tec azde and hammer, Grivel Air Tech Evo adze and hammer, Black Diamond Venom adze and hammer. The Cassin Alpax Special looks like it would fall into this category. My preference is for a longer axe (~60 cm) and a shorter hammer (~50 cm). This set up gives maximum versatility - longer axe for when the slope is not so steep, and a shorter, easier to swing hammer for steeper sections.

The X-Alp look an awful lot like my Charlet Petzl Aztars which are great technical alpine/mixed winter alpine/waterfall tools for luddites not into the leashless gig. In summary, the Apax Special looks to be better tools for your intended usage (mountaineering on routes with ice pitches less than vertical.) than the X-Alp.

For the normal routes on those peaks you just need a regular mountaineering axe, plus any second tool for the headwall on Illampu. Ancohuma you should not need two tools.

Your Jorasses should be fine, with the X-Alp hammer, though the Special hammer would probably be more appropriate. I say take the hammer as the 2nd because we put in a couple of snow stakes on the route and a hammer is useful for that. But for future steep use the two matching X-Alps will be better.

The headwall on Illampu is no more than 50 degrees, despite what you may hear. People with little or no experience on truly steep (70+) and/or technical ice often overestimate the gradient of moderate terrain, and it sounds better in TRs and company websites. I know the Yossi Brain book says it is 65 degrees, but it is not. To get onto it (in 1999) we did climb a bodylength of steeper terrain on the right side, in the dark, but in hindsight this was not necessary. I have not done Anchohuma, but it is less steep than Illampu. The ridge to the top of Illampu is very nice, but the kind of terrain where you should have a traditional long mountaineering axe, same for Ancohuma. Despite what you may see some pro climbers doing on some routes, for most people a trad axe is better for walking, cramponing and self-arresting.

Damien Gildea wrote:For the normal routes on those peaks you just need a regular mountaineering axe, plus any second tool for the headwall on Illampu. Ancohuma you should not need two tools.

I agree with what Damien said about Illampu. The headwall is not that steep, but there is a shrund that can be exciting on the descent.

I did Ancohuma and it in fact has several places with similar steepness as Illampu but not as long.

In both cases (Illampu and Ancohuma) the descent is technically harder because the last one needs to downclimb. I was doing that on Ancohuma and the technical tool was nice to have. We planned to rap the Illampu headwall and did so although I could downclimb it as well.

So a general mountaineering axe and any technical tool should work.

I really appreciate the advice everyone! I can hardly wait to get down there now!!

bdynkin wrote:The headwall is not that steep, but there is a shrund that can be exciting on the descent.

Yep, on the way down we had the first climber rappel off a snowstake above the schrund then the second climber did a belayed jump / downclimb! As you say, we found downclimbing the route as hard or harder than going up it, also as by then it was in the sun. It was early July and already the headwall had started to melt out and get icy.

I should mention that I did not summit Illampu. We stopped about 50m from the top, as the weather was coming in, high winds, and we had to negotiate the ice cliff high on the ridge near the top. Back then the way around it was down and to the right, but that may have changed. But failing on Illampu was much more enjoyable than summiting Huayna Potosi, Pequeno Alpamayo, Parinacota etc. Sorata was a really nice town to spend a day or two as well.

Between the two choices you asked about, the CAMP Alpax Special and the Cassin X-Alp would both handle the snow and 40-60 degree ice found on these routes. But it is our view that the traditional mountaineering heritage of treating one ice axe both as a cane for walking and as a tool for self-arrest is running its course. Using more modern techniques and committing to a stronger reliance on stability with the feet presents the opportunity to bring a more technical tool even on more moderate terrain. The obvious advantage with the more technical tool is that it can also be employed for more technical climbing should an unexpectedy difficult section present itself during the climb and it can be used on sustained technical climbs where a more classic tool does not offer such diversity. To answer the original poster's question specifically, a more aggressively curved shaft of the X-Alp will outperform the Alpax on vertical ice water ice, steep moats/alpine ice, etc, and it can also be used for climbing and self-arrest on more moderate terrain.

CAMP-USA

CAMPUSA wrote:The CAMP Alpax Special and the Cassin X-Alp would both handle the snow and 40-60 degree ice found on these routes. But it is our view that the traditional mountaineering heritage of treating an axe both as a cane for walking and as a tool for self-arrest is running its course. Using more modern techniques and committing to a stronger reliance on stability with the feet presents the opportunity tobring a more technical tool even on more moderate terrain.

Sorry, Camp USA, you will have to pry my 35-year-old teak Camp ice axe out of my cold, dead fingers.

CAMPUSA wrote:The more aggressively curved shaft of the X-Alp will outperform the Alpax on vertical ice water ice, steep moats/alpince, etc, and it can also be used for climbing and self-arrest on more moderate terrain.'

Wow, now we let companies post to promote their wares?

I don't climb 'moats' or 'alpinces' whatever they are, but I have tried self-arresting with an aggressively 'reverse curved' (to use an outdated term) tech tool and it is not good. I'm surprised that a company would recommend using their product in way that contradicts accepted practice. As a very tall person I can also say that trying to use a 50cm tech tool on moderate terrain, in cane-style or similar, is almost impossible and causes a taller person to bend over more, inhibiting breathing and taking weight off the feet.

The obvious advantage with the more technical tool is that it can also be mployed for more technical climbing should an unexpectedy difficult section present itself during the climb

There is nothing on these routes of such sustained technicality that can not be climbed with a traditional axe with a regular pick, any second tool, some footwork and balance.

I think this is a misleading bullshit post cut and pasted from a catalogue. So will Camp stop making longer mountaineering axes because they are, according to this post, no longer suitable?

Damien,

I'm glad you posted. The CAMPUSA post confused me as well, and I felt it offered generally poor advice.