Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Critique my gear list (please)

Post climbing gear-related questions, offer advice. For classifieds, please use that forum.
 

Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Kai » Fri May 04, 2012 7:53 am

The thread on packs has got me thinking. Maybe I'm bringing the wrong stuff or too much stuff with me when I climb.

Here's my gear list for a typical 2 person 2-3 day climb (carry over, alpine ice) numbers are weight in ounces.

Please tear it apart.



Clothing
O.R. Sonic balaclava 2.10
Buff 0.60
Rab Phantom Grip gloves 1.60
O.R. Supercouloir glove shells 6.2
Marmot Prizefighter Gloves 9.40
Dahlgren Alaska socks (2 pair) 10.20
O.R. Short Gaiters 4.70
Scarpa Phantom 6000 boots 83.00
Patagonia R1 Hoodie (size large) 13.20
Mammut All-year long sleeve zip-neck 7.50
REI Activestretch running tights 8.60
Craft boxer briefs with wind panel 3.70
Rab Latok Alpine Jacket (eVENT) 16.80
Arcteryx Alpha LT 1/2 bib (G-tex) 18.40
Mountain Hardwear Compressor hoodie 21.50

HB Dyneema Helmet 13.00

Clothing Subtotal 215.30 (13 pounds, 7.3 oz)


Personal Climbing Gear
Black Diamond Couloir Harness 8.90
2 Tiblocs 2.80
Leg loops for Texas prussik 1.00
Grivel Airtech crampons 32.50
2 Revolver Locking carabiners 5.00
Mammut Smart Alpine belay device 4.40
2 Black Diamond mini Pear locking biners 5.40
BD Venom Ice axe with leash and head protector 21.10
BD Venom Hammer with leash and protector 19.90

Personal Climbing gear Subtotal 101.00 (6 pounds, 5 ounces)

Group Climbing Gear
60 Meter Mammut Serenity 8.9mm rope 117.00
5 Dyneema runners 5.00
10 Lightweight carabiners 12.00
2 Yates Pickets (or substitute pitons and light rock rack, or delete entirely depending on route and conditions) 24.00
2 96 inch Dyneema quad runners 4.00
8 Ice Screws (or fewer, depending on route) 52.00
4 Lightweight locking carabiners 5.20

Group Climbing Gear Subtotal 219.20 (13 pounds, 11.2 ounces)

Camping/Overnight gear
Brooks Range Rocket Tent (with ridge pole) 29.50
MSR Reactor 20.10
2 MSR Isobutane - 8oz (1 per 2 days) 25
First Aid and repair Kit 11.00
Titanium bowl 1.80
Delorme inReach beacon 8.30

Camping gear Subtotal 83.20 (5 pounds, 3.2 ounces)

Personal gear
Cilo 45L NWD Worksack 45.00
NeoAir Xtherm full length pad 15.50
Marmot Helium 15 degree down MEMBRAIN full zip 37.10
Nalgene Canteen 16 oz pee bottle 1.90
Toothbrush and paste 2.00
REI Sun Screen 1.00
Granite Gear uberlight dry bag (18 liter) 0.20

Personal Gear Subtotal 102.70 (6 pounds, 6.7 ounces)

Camera gear
Panasonic LX5 camera in Optech case 10.90

Camera gear Subtotal 10.90

Misc Stuff
Mammut Lucido TX1 Headlamp with lithium batteries 4.90
Leatherman Squirt PS4 multi-tool 1.90
Suunto Vector 2.10
Adidas Terrex Pro Sunglasses, nose shield, soft bag 2.00
Uvex Pocket Goggles 2.70
Casio Commando phone 5.40

Misc stuff Subtotal 19.00 (1 pound, 3 ounces)


Food and Water
Food: 13 oz (0.36 kg) / day 32
2 Quarts water 64.00

Food and water Subtotal 96 (6 pounds)
User Avatar
Kai

 
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:26 pm
Location: Salt Lake, Utah, United States
Thanked: 53 times in 39 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Damien Gildea » Fri May 04, 2012 11:02 am

I can't work in ounces, but it seems that, taking out your clothing/boots, and splitting the group gear, you'd have less than 20kg on your back? And presumably after 2 days most of your food weight is gone.

Seems a bit heavy but I can't see much to take out of your list. Personally I'd nix the buff, gaiters, beacon, pee bottle, toothpaste/brush, axe head protectors, a couple less screws and maybe a lighter firstaid/repair kit.
User Avatar
Damien Gildea

 
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:19 pm
Thanked: 211 times in 130 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby lcarreau » Fri May 04, 2012 1:35 pm

I think it really depends on where you're going and where you'd like to be. In some cases, you can stash food in the mountains, to be used at a later time ...
and still maintain a responsible wilderness ethic.

If you can go without for several days, by all means do. You could also compare and coordinate your list with other people, and possibly lighten up your pack
in the long run.

You could also do as Bear Grylls does ..

Image
User Avatar
lcarreau

 
Posts: 4046
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:27 pm
Location: Court of the Crimson King, Arizona, United States
Thanked: 846 times in 640 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Fletch » Fri May 04, 2012 4:31 pm

Here's what I think you dont need:

*the balaclava - use the buff
*running tights - you dont need these with the bibs - they are planty warm...
*jackets - too many, lose one (you have 4 upper layers with hood - you cant wear all 4 hoods at once and you probably can loose your warm hat if you insist on 4 hoods)
*one tibloc - how many times do you actually use two? use a prussik for the other - that way it serves two or three purposes (as a sling, or untied, as a v-thread anchor) instead of one.
*am I counting right, 22 biners and 8 screws? - you can lighten that up a bit...
*titanium bowl? - nice...
*loose the leatherman - just use a small climbing knife...
*phone? - nice...
User Avatar
Fletch

 
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:46 pm
Location: Orange County
Thanked: 90 times in 49 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby ExcitableBoy » Fri May 04, 2012 6:07 pm

It is hard to give an meaningful critique without knowing what season, what range, what mountains you climb. If you provide that information I'd be happy to weigh in (pun intended).
User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 2878
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Thanked: 422 times in 306 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Kai » Fri May 04, 2012 7:02 pm

ExcitableBoy wrote:It is hard to give an meaningful critique without knowing what season, what range, what mountains you climb. If you provide that information I'd be happy to weigh in (pun intended).


Figure Rainier Lib Ridge or Ptarmigan Ridge; Shuksan North Face; Robson N. Face or Fuerer Ridge etc. in spring through fall. Basically any large alpine face covered with snow/ice in the lower 48 in non-winter conditions.

Obviously, the mix of the climbing rack will vary, but I'm more concerned about the stuff other than the rack anyway.
User Avatar
Kai

 
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:26 pm
Location: Salt Lake, Utah, United States
Thanked: 53 times in 39 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby ExcitableBoy » Fri May 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Kai wrote:Figure Rainier Lib Ridge or Ptarmigan Ridge; Shuksan North Face; Robson N. Face or Fuerer Ridge etc. in spring through fall. Basically any large alpine face covered with snow/ice in the lower 48 in non-winter conditions.

Obviously, the mix of the climbing rack will vary, but I'm more concerned about the stuff other than the rack anyway.

Ok, got it. I've done all of these routes except for Robson. Your list looks pretty tight, I would personally only change a couple of things, but it won't make much difference:

Clothing
O.R. Sonic balaclava 2.10
Buff 0.60 Redundant with balaclava -drop
Rab Phantom Grip gloves 1.60
O.R. Supercouloir glove shells 6.2
Marmot Prizefighter Gloves 9.40
Dahlgren Alaska socks (2 pair) 10.20
O.R. Short Gaiters 4.70 Not needed or recommended with Scarpa Phantoms integral gaitors - drop
Scarpa Phantom 6000 boots 83.00
Patagonia R1 Hoodie (size large) 13.20
Mammut All-year long sleeve zip-neck 7.50
REI Activestretch running tights 8.60
Craft boxer briefs with wind panel 3.70
Rab Latok Alpine Jacket (eVENT) 16.80
Arcteryx Alpha LT 1/2 bib (G-tex) 18.40
Mountain Hardwear Compressor hoodie 21.50

HB Dyneema Helmet 13.00

Clothing Subtotal 215.30 (13 pounds, 7.3 oz)


Personal Climbing Gear
Black Diamond Couloir Harness 8.90
2 Tiblocs 2.80
Leg loops for Texas prussik 1.00
Grivel Airtech crampons 32.50
2 Revolver Locking carabiners 5.00
Mammut Smart Alpine belay device 4.40
2 Black Diamond mini Pear locking biners 5.40
BD Venom Ice axe with leash and head protector 21.10
BD Venom Hammer with leash and protector 19.90

Personal Climbing gear Subtotal 101.00 (6 pounds, 5 ounces)

Group Climbing Gear
60 Meter Mammut Serenity 8.9mm rope 117.00
5 Dyneema runners 5.00
10 Lightweight carabiners 12.00
2 Yates Pickets (or substitute pitons and light rock rack, or delete entirely depending on route and conditions) 24.00 1 picket each is enough. You can deadman an ice tool for a second anchor in crevasse rescue.
2 96 inch Dyneema quad runners 4.00
8 Ice Screws (or fewer, depending on route) 52.00 6 screws is plenty
4 Lightweight locking carabiners 5.20

Group Climbing Gear Subtotal 219.20 (13 pounds, 11.2 ounces)

Camping/Overnight gear
Brooks Range Rocket Tent (with ridge pole) 29.50
MSR Reactor 20.10
2 MSR Isobutane - 8oz (1 per 2 days) 25
First Aid and repair Kit 11.00
Titanium bowl 1.80
Delorme inReach beacon 8.30

Camping gear Subtotal 83.20 (5 pounds, 3.2 ounces)

Personal gear
Cilo 45L NWD Worksack 45.00
NeoAir Xtherm full length pad 15.50
Marmot Helium 15 degree down MEMBRAIN full zip 37.10
Nalgene Canteen 16 oz pee bottle 1.90
Toothbrush and paste 2.00
REI Sun Screen 1.00
Granite Gear uberlight dry bag (18 liter) 0.20

Personal Gear Subtotal 102.70 (6 pounds, 6.7 ounces)

Camera gear
Panasonic LX5 camera in Optech case 10.90

Camera gear Subtotal 10.90

Misc Stuff
Mammut Lucido TX1 Headlamp with lithium batteries 4.90
Leatherman Squirt PS4 multi-tool 1.90
Suunto Vector 2.10
Adidas Terrex Pro Sunglasses, nose shield, soft bag 2.00
Uvex Pocket Goggles 2.70
Casio Commando phone 5.40

Misc stuff Subtotal 19.00 (1 pound, 3 ounces)


Food and Water
Food: 13 oz (0.36 kg) / day 32
2 Quarts water 64.00

Food and water Subtotal 96 (6 pounds)
User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 2878
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Thanked: 422 times in 306 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Dane1 » Fri May 04, 2012 7:38 pm

Lib or Ptar ridge? You won't be gone long and I don't climb in bad weather. If you have done a climb and didn't use something you brought..simply don't bring it next time. Spare socks and gloves go in that catagory for most of these climbs. Way, way to many "spares" imo. Think of what they first climbed the Eiger or any big n face in the alps with, (damn near nothing) then rethink what you bring.

Clothing

Buff 0.60
one pair of decent alpine gloves, one pair of BD liners for the approach
Scarpa Phantom 6000 boots 83.00 (no need for dbls on Rainier)
Patagonia R1 Hoodie (size large) 13.20
REI boxers
wind shell
Mountain Hardwear Compressor hoodie 21.50 (decent but there are better ones now)
Petzl Meteror (or no helmet)
pants> Gamma Lt or Alpinist salopettes

Clothing Subtotal * you can look up the savings on CT


Personal Climbing Gear
Black Diamond Couloir Harness 8.90
Grivel Airtech
2 Black Diamond mini Pear locking biners 5.40
BD Venom Ice axe with leash and head protector 21.10 (one good axe and knowing how to use it will eliminate the need for a second tool)
BD Venom Hammer with leash and protector 19.90

Personal Climbing gear Subtotal 101.00 (6 pounds, 5 ounces)

Group Climbing Gear
30m 7.8 twin beal
2 pickets
4 slings


Group Climbing Gear Subtotal 219.20 (13 pounds, 11.2 ounces)

Camping/Overnight gear
Brooks Range Rocket Tent (or ditch it altogether)
MSR Reactor 20.10
2 MSR Isobutane - 8oz (1 per 2 days) 25
First Aid and repair Kit 11.00
Titanium bowl 1.80
Camping gear Subtotal 83.20 (5 pounds, 3.2 ounces)

Personal gear
Cilo 45L NWD Worksack 45.00 (a lighter pack is easy that is almost 3 full pounds)
NeoAir Xtherm full length pad 15.50
Marmot Helium 15 degree down MEMBRAIN full zip 37.10 (2# or less is easy for a 3 seaon bag)
REI Sun Screen 1.00
Panasonic LX5 camera in Optech case 10.90

Misc Stuff
Mammut Lucido TX1 Headlamp with lithium batteries 4.90

Adidas Terrex Pro Sunglasses, nose shield, soft bag 2.00
Casio Commando phone 5.40

Food and Water
Food: 13 oz (0.36 kg) / day 32
2 Quarts water 64.00 and I'd go to a single Liter and melt snow or pick up fresh water instead
Last edited by Dane1 on Fri May 04, 2012 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
Dane1

 
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:35 am
Thanked: 40 times in 31 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Dane1 » Fri May 04, 2012 8:06 pm

Better yet..
Ptarmigan in hard snow easy ice mid to late summer conditions. Left side ice gully finish. Equally skilled partners. Perfect forecast. Carry over through DC to Paradise. Walk in with runners and soxs not listed silk weight longs used on the walk in along with a tech T. Runners, socks will be carried in pack on the climb.

Clothing

Ball cap
buff
BD liner med weight clove
MH Hydra
Scarpa Phantom Ultra single
med and liner sock
tech t
Patagonia R1 Hoodie
silk weight longs
hooded wind shell top
Patagonia Nanopuff pullover
pants> Gamma Lt

Personal Climbing Gear
BI Chouca
Petzl Dartwin
2 nomic, no head weights
trekking poles

30m 7.8 twin beal
4 short Helix
10 biners 4 slings

Camping/Overnight gear
MSR Reactor 20.10
1 MSR Isobutane
plastic bowl

Personal gear
custom ccw 2#
hard man yellow pad
FF Vireo
REI Sun Screen 1.00
Panasonic LX5 camera
Headlamp with lithium batteries
Sunglasses
cell

Food and Water
Food: 16 oz
1l water bottle
User Avatar
Dane1

 
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:35 am
Thanked: 40 times in 31 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby stinkydog » Sat May 05, 2012 8:33 am

Dane1 wrote:If you have done a climb and didn't use something you brought..simply don't bring it next time.


That's gonna leave a mark...
User Avatar
stinkydog

 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:32 am
Location: WY, Montana, United States
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby ExcitableBoy » Sat May 05, 2012 2:38 pm

Dane1 wrote:Better yet..
Ptarmigan in hard snow easy ice mid to late summer conditions. Left side ice gully finish. Equally skilled partners. Perfect forecast. Carry over through DC to Paradise. Walk in with runners and soxs not listed silk weight longs used on the walk in along with a tech T. Runners, socks will be carried in pack on the climb.

2 nomic, no head weights

I'm curious Dane, why you would recommend very technical tools for Ptarmigan Ridge? I've read you recommend piolets for steep routes before. This is a route that seems to me would be ideal for a piolet and hammer combo (Petzl Sum'Tec). There is only 2,500 ft of the business, with 2,000 more feet of fairly mellow glaciers (not to mention the descent) where a 60 cm axe would be more comfortable than a shorty tool, yet safer than a trekking pole. Back in the day I had an REI (SMC) Shuksan 60 cm axe and a 50 cm SMC Himalayan hammer for such routes. The new techy Sum'Tec, Grivel Air Tech Evo, BD Venom seem to be the present day, improved version of this set up. Comments?

Also, if you take an R1 Hoody, and a puffy with a hood, there is not much need for hats and buffs. I guess that is why Dane left the hat off his list. I had an early version of a hoody (Lowe Alpine Ninja), and I suppose due to my odd body it never felt comfortable and have been turned off by hoodies, but they seem to be more efficient (no gaps) than a jacket, hat, buff. When I go lift service skiing, instead of a buff I use a scarf. Tres chic.
User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 2878
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Thanked: 422 times in 306 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Dane1 » Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 pm

It's a definative list of what I would use. Not what I suggest for anyone else. It is simply what I would take climbing with an equal partner. A single axe would work. Either set up would likely be fine if you have the skills to use them adroitly.

I've done PR in late Oct on black ice with a 55cm Piolet and a simple wooden alpine hammer as well.
By modern standards the actualy climbing isn't hard. Easy to climb very quickly and securely with a pair of Nomics on moderate ground and never swing or plunge a tool. That is a huge energy savings in the right conditions. My avatar photo is a good example of that.

Image

The real crux on PR for me is the last 2000' of simple slog, then over to CC. Even a 60cm isn't long enough to be useful on that march. Going down DC a Nomic would work fine to keep you on the hill in a slip if you know what you are doing.

Image
Mark's photo of Nastia mid Ptarmigan

Like everything you make decisions on, it helps to know why and what it will cost. Nomics suck at climbing steep snow. You'd want hard Neve at a minimum to take full advantage of them while climbing.

Here are the weights of my tools. Only the Summit is over 50cm and it is a 52. I am 6'1".

Nomic 1# 4.4 oz
Airtec evo 15.3
Summit 1# 2oz
Snow Racer 12.6oz

On Libery I would not take a Nomic. Liberty isn't steep enough imo. A single axe has worked fine there early season (by the end of July) for me in the past . Don't understand why anyone takes a hammer on these routes unless you take pickets...which I don't. Snow Racer is a good option as a second "tool" imo. But a trekking pole will work as a second or even a BD Whippet. All these climbs were first done with a single, long (70cm or longer) axe. Judge for yourself what you want in an tool for these routes.

Hats? I like a buff or scarf as a sweat band and then later to keep my ears warm, Ball cap for the walk in and out for the sun. Hoods on the jackets are there for a reason..so I use them as required. As a bonus hoods don't require idiot leashes.

Image
User Avatar
Dane1

 
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:35 am
Thanked: 40 times in 31 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby ExcitableBoy » Sat May 05, 2012 6:58 pm

Dane1 wrote:A single axe has worked fine there early season (by the end of July) for me in the past . Don't understand why anyone takes a hammer on these routes unless you take pickets...which I don't.

Thanks for the response. Just an anecdote; I was chatting with Paul Baugher once while 'climbing' in the Goat Rocks with my 8 YO. He related a story climbing Lib Ridge with Mark Twight. They were climbing the upper ridge un roped and Paul was climbing with a single axe. Mark chided Paul and said 'Your axes are your belay, use your second tool.' I thought that was pretty funny because Mark was spinning his image as a 'summit or death, I dream I'll be eaten by rats, Dr Doom' kind of thing' back then.

I pesonally like a second tool on hard glacier ice, even on slopes only 50 degrees. It instils confidence, breeds speed and safety for me.
User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 2878
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Thanked: 422 times in 306 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby Dane1 » Sat May 05, 2012 7:49 pm

"I pesonally like a second tool on hard glacier ice, even on slopes only 50 degrees. It instils confidence, breeds speed and safety for me."

As do I. But there is little or no hard glacial ice on Liberty or Ptarmigan until late fall generally. While possible you'd have to look pretty hard to find any and it certainly isn't typically required on an ascent of either ridge. They are at best generally steep snow slogs and not actual ice climbs by modern standards. I use a pair of Nomics or Ergos in high dagger if the snow is hard enough. It is very fast and very secure. Any number of tools would work there but not as easily or save as much energy if the conditions were right as a very high clearence shaft.
User Avatar
Dane1

 
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:35 am
Thanked: 40 times in 31 posts

Re: Critique my gear list (please)

Postby ExcitableBoy » Sat May 05, 2012 11:47 pm

Dane1 wrote:"I pesonally like a second tool on hard glacier ice, even on slopes only 50 degrees. It instils confidence, breeds speed and safety for me."

As do I. But there is little or no hard glacial ice on Liberty or Ptarmigan until late fall generally.


I think it must vary by year, and climate change is changing things as well. This photo of Doug Seitz on PR is from a trip over Memorial Day WE:
Image
User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 2878
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Thanked: 422 times in 306 posts

Next

Return to Gear

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.