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SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby AlexeyD » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Fletch wrote:But if his name is something difficult to pronounce (by Western audiences) or difficult to spell (with Western keyboards), then maybe just saying Sherpa is the way to go?


Wow...imagine if journalists followed this logic when writing about international topics. "Today a group of Chinese people announced this and that, to which another group of Indian people said this..." Sorry Fletch, but I totally disagree with you here - I think that including a person's name if possible, as difficult as it may be to pronounce, is basic courtesy when writing about other people, and being "difficult to pronounce" is no excuse. If the name is not known and no other information is available, then it's a different story; in that case a descriptor such as "Sherpa" is appropriate, but only in that case.
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Fletch » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:00 pm

How do you spell Fred in Sherpa using a 26 letter Western alphabet? All I'm saying is that it's not meant to be disrespectful, it's simply a matter of logistics. The intended audience is one that is assumed not to speak Sherpa so the people's names were simplified to make it easier to read.

My name is difficult to pronounce in Spanish. So when I lived in Central America, my friends and neighbors made up a name that they could pronounce and called me that. I didn't care and it certainly wasn't disrespectful. It was easiest for them - in their world.

For the Western journalist, one could make the aregument that he was being respectful by not butchering the name or worse, making something up.

But if the guys name was Joe or Mohammed or Javier, then yes, no excuse.
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Scott » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:01 pm

I still think it would be awesome if one of the headlines stated the following:

This just in,

Nanga Parbat climbed by Lhakpa Rangdu, Lhakpa Zarok and two white guys
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Fletch » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:30 pm

Or better,

这, Nanga Lhakpa Rangdu, Lhakpa Zarok和二个白人攀登的Parbat

(wouldn't that be a nice article to read?)
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Cy Kaicener » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:58 pm

The latest news from Sandy Allen's web blog

http://www.teamascent.blogspot.com
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Nikman » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:47 pm

To me it isn't clear what the team did or did not. Actual reports talk about a former incorrect translation an a wrong reported summit success by social media team.

The teams website also doesn't have substancial actual info and lacks the details in my opinion (To follow I would like to know what happenes each day). Maybe the info comes that way, because the team is very small of members.

It will hopefully all be released and underlined with some pics ...
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Cy Kaicener » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:51 pm

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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Vitaliy M. » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:38 pm

Fletch wrote:
Vitaliy M. wrote:I did not want to say it, but I will. It makes me sick that they (news articles etc) call the other team members simply as 'Sherpas.' Everyone has a name (and credibility report in most cases), but those individuals are just 'Sherpas.' What the hell? Is 'Sherpas' a different word for 'porters' nowadays? It's like they are sub humans or something. From the article it is a bit confusing to understand if they are team members, or are they used to carry more gear, or what?

I think it's something that gets lost in translation and it's not meant to be disrespectful - you have some experience in that Vitaliy, don't you? :lol: You may be extrapolating a bit from the article. Sherpa is a word used for a people - and it's a word spelled using a 'Western' alphabet trying to imitate an 'Eastern' sound. If we really wanted to be PC, then we should be using thier languange and their alphabet to call each person by their name - but I'm guessing that other than Bruno maybe, not too many folks on this forum have a keyboard in Sherpa or speak Sherpa. If the dude really is named Fred or Joe or Sally, then yes, the writer of the article should say Fred Sherpa from Kathmandu, who enjoys windsurfing and romantic walks on the beach climbed to 23,000 ft today... blah, blah, blah. But if his name is something difficult to pronounce (by Western audiences) or difficult to spell (with Western keyboards), then maybe just saying Sherpa is the way to go? It's certainly better than making up a name for the guy, right? Remember the intended audience of the article is folks who predominately speak English and live in different places.

(Dorfman. Your new name is Flounder.)


I am fairly sure you yourself understand that this argument is a bit comical. Official expedition web site lists the 'Sherpas' by their real name. I am sure those guys spelled it in English for it, or at least agreed that they want to be listed under those names. If your logic was followed we would not know who Tenzing was :lol:

"Obama is meeting some Mexicans today."
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Cy Kaicener » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:00 pm

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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Bruno » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:05 pm

Vitaliy M. wrote:IIt makes me sick that they (news articles etc) call the other team members simply as 'Sherpas.' Everyone has a name [...]but those individuals are just 'Sherpas.' What the hell?

Not that I want to split hairs, but Sherpa is their name.

OK, it's a bit more complicated than this (check http://www.sherpakyidug.org/sherpa/sherpa_facts.asp#Q:%20Do%20all%20Sherpas%20use%20"Sherpa"%20as%20their%20surname?), but roughly most (almost all) Sherpas use "Sherpa" as their surname, as for example people in the US are mostly called Black, White, Green, Brown or Pink.

Obviously, the given name takes all its importance to differenciate each other, such as "Blanca Brown", "Bruno White" or "Rose Pink"... What a colourful world!

For the rest, I fully agree with you, western media often sadly treat mountaineers' achievements (or deaths) in a different way depending on where you come from. This bias is actually not only present in western media, and not only concerning Sherpa, and not only mountaineering... But that's something for the off route forum...

Fletch wrote:but I'm guessing that other than Bruno maybe, not too many folks on this forum have a keyboard in Sherpa

I'm probably one of the few at SP not to have a Sherpa keyboard, since English/American keyboard is indeed the same as Sherpa keyboard. My keyboard has a lot of bizarre ~'`"^ you may wonder about. :) Sherpa language, though derivated from Tibetan language, used to be mainly an oral language, and the roman alphabet is the most common way of writing Sherpa words, and English speakers do use the same keyboard as on Sherpa computers.

Anyway, congrtulations to all 6: Nuru, Sandy, Rangduk, Rick, Zarok and Cathy!
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Fletch » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:25 am

Bruno - you are the best man! Thanks.
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Wastral » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:28 am

To put simply: Blame the British(English) for dominate sea faring trade for several hundred years followed by WWII leaving only the nations of USA/Britain(English) and Russia standing.

So essentially the language of trade for the last 300+++ years has been English. Screwed up as a language might be but what we are stuck with. =)
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Diego Sahagún » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:18 am

15 de junio, ¡conseguida la cumbre del Nanga Parbat por la arista Mazeno! - http://desnivel.com/expediciones/15-de- ... sta-mazeno
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Re: SUMMIT - Mazeno Ridge to Nanga Parbat climbed

Postby Diego Sahagún » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:23 am

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