Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

The vanishing Snows of Kilimanjaro

Mountaineering, rock climbing, and hiking news.
 

Postby Buz Groshong » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:55 pm

outofstep80 wrote:I actually am a global warming believer. I think both sides have there extremes though. It is definitely a complex system that we are trying to analyze and it is difficult to know the extent of the damage we have caused, but to think that everything we do has no impact is more than a little...(fill in the blank)


You know, I guess since this isn't PnP, we'll allow you to be reasonable. :D

That's actually the way I see it. We can't predict the weather a week ahead, so while we can observe a trend and possibly predict that it will continue, we really can't predict its magnitude very accurately. But yes, everything we do has consequences and we have certainly increased substantially the output of CO2 to the atmosphere. We have also released halocarbon gasses into the atmosphere that are breaking down the ionospheric ozone.
User Avatar
Buz Groshong

 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia, United States
Thanked: 664 times in 468 posts

NOTE TO MODERATOR

Postby sopwith21 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:39 pm

NOTE TO MODERATOR:

A news report on a new finding that Himalayan glaciers were not, in fact, melting was banished to PnP.

Why is this thread, which takes the opposite position, considered legitimate "news" and left here in the news section?

It doesn't matter which way we go, but let's be consistent. If we're to banish environmental news to PnP, let's banish ALL environmental threads equally.
sopwith21

 
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:46 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post

Postby MoapaPk » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:34 pm

This thread stayed fairly civil, and most people did seem to read the cited article a bit more carefully after the dual interpretations were mentioned. The other thread seemed to be raising emotions, and was quickly spinning off into heated rhetoric.

The middle-of-the-road is a dangerous place... you get hit by cars going both directions!
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7604
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 736 times in 475 posts

Postby The Chief » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:38 am

What is more, he suggested that the recent melting had more to do with a decline in moisture levels than with a warming atmosphere.

“Our understanding is that it is due to the slow drying out of ice,” Dr. Kaser said. “It’s about moisture fluctuation.”


Imagine that, the lack of precip and not actual warming is the primary cause.

Maybe someone should tell Gore.

As MoapaPk stated, maybe the AGW close minded religous Thumpers should actually read the recent peer reviewed study.... duh.
The Chief

 
Thanked: time in post

Postby Alpinist » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:03 pm

I don't doubt that a reduction in percipitation is a major factor in the glacier melt on Kilimanjaro. However, that does not in any way disprove global warming.

The majority of glaciers on this planet are melting. Unless you can prove that they are all melting because of a lack of percipitation, then the fact that the glacier on Kili is melting because of it means nothing in the context of the global warming debate.
User Avatar
Alpinist

 
Posts: 5999
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:21 pm
Location: Kildeer, Illinois, United States
Thanked: 629 times in 428 posts

Postby MoapaPk » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:20 pm

Alpinist wrote:I don't doubt that a reduction in percipitation is a major factor in the glacier melt on Kilimanjaro. However, that does not in any way disprove global warming.

The majority of glaciers on this planet are melting. Unless you can prove that they are all melting because of a lack of percipitation, then the fact that the glacier on Kili is melting because of it means nothing in the context of the global warming debate.


I think one of the points of the article(s) was that people should be cautious in using Kili as a "poster child"; there are much better (less ambiguous) examples of glaciers melting from temperature change.

EDIT: The ties between GW and glacial advance/retreat are really very complicated:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_ ... al_warming

I think it is fairly dangerous, no matter what side of the debate you are on, to draw simple conclusions. There are glaciers that are "advancing" rapidly, but are actually decreasing in total mass, since they now have a more slippery bottom layer and are accelerating and thinning as they move to the sea.
Last edited by MoapaPk on Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7604
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 736 times in 475 posts

Postby Mihai Tanase » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:22 pm

MoapaPk wrote:The middle-of-the-road is a dangerous place... you get hit by cars going both directions!

Excellent!
Mihai Tanase

 
Thanked: time in post

Postby sopwith21 » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:03 pm

MoapaPk wrote:This thread stayed fairly civil, and most people did seem to read the cited article a bit more carefully after the dual interpretations were mentioned. The other thread seemed to be raising emotions, and was quickly spinning off into heated rhetoric.

You're discussing WHY two threads on the same topic are treated in an inconsistent, contradictory fashion (and you could be quite correct). I'm merely observing THAT two threads on the same topic are treated in an inconsistent, contradictory fashion.
sopwith21

 
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:46 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post

Postby Day Hiker » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:11 am

sopwith21 wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:This thread stayed fairly civil, and most people did seem to read the cited article a bit more carefully after the dual interpretations were mentioned. The other thread seemed to be raising emotions, and was quickly spinning off into heated rhetoric.

You're discussing WHY two threads on the same topic are treated in an inconsistent, contradictory fashion (and you could be quite correct). I'm merely observing THAT two threads on the same topic are treated in an inconsistent, contradictory fashion.


Just a hunch, and the site's admin can verify, but I don't think the other thread was moved because of TOPIC.

OMG....What the fuck are you talking about?

Wow ...you really do know it all. The massive consensus of scientists all around the world means nothing to you. Does it suck being that good or can you deal with it because you are just that fucking cool?
Maybe someday if I spray enough on SP I too can reach your level of awesomness.
Until then I'll just stick with trolling...

You fucking hypocrite.
Asshole.
you're just another gym-climbing loud mouthed n00b.
User Avatar
Day Hiker

 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:57 am
Location: Henderson, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 61 times in 43 posts

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:01 pm

User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7604
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 736 times in 475 posts

Postby sopwith21 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:45 am

Day Hiker wrote:Just a hunch, and the site's admin can verify, but I don't think the other thread was moved because of TOPIC.

Moderators become puppets when they allow deliberately posted profanity to manipulate them into moving a news story PnP. That's why they have the ability to delete individual posts.
sopwith21

 
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:46 am
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post

Postby WouterB » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:38 am

sopwith21 wrote:
Day Hiker wrote:Just a hunch, and the site's admin can verify, but I don't think the other thread was moved because of TOPIC.

Moderators become puppets when they allow deliberately posted profanity to manipulate them into moving a news story PnP. That's why they have the ability to delete individual posts.

+1.006


Why can't the Tanzanian government just hire the Chinese to change the weather for them?
User Avatar
WouterB

 
Posts: 3133
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:54 pm
Location: Lugano, Ticino, Switzerland
Thanked: 13 times in 13 posts

Postby MoapaPk » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:14 pm

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Turkeys against climate change



I ran out of apostrophes.
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7604
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 736 times in 475 posts

Postby lowlands » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:24 pm

I hope I get to climb Kili before all of the snow is gone.
User Avatar
lowlands

 
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:56 pm
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Re: The vanishing Snows of Kilimanjaro

Postby Jasonak » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:14 am

Jasonak

 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:09 am
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Previous

Return to News

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.