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Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

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Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby NW » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:10 pm

I found this article was quite fair in it's depiction of an inexperienced climber on Everest. This is the first I heard about it but it doesn't paint all Everest go ers as crazy like some news articles do. It shows how just paying for a guide service doesn't give you climbing experience. I did find it kind of funny that the article says the service taught her about mountaineering, even how to put crampons on boots. If that's the qualifier then I'm more qualified then I thought to be in the Himalayas....To bad the turn out, was definitely preventable, though not all together uncommon.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... state.html
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby jdenyes » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:58 pm

This was a really strange event in Canadian media, and the crampons on the boots is not the funniest statement I have seen relating to it.
I feel bad for her family, and it was very sad she lost her life, but with all of the things that got reported, I had to wonder, a lot. She was front page news, top headline coverage, in depth analysis for over two weeks. Mostly, lamenting the sad tragedy without any comment as to whether or not she should have been there. You're right, I think the article was fairly balanced, but I still felt a very distinct ''well, her sherpa's were inexperienced and THATS why she failed'' vibe.

But the funniest statement I read about this whole misadventure was how she prepared
''she would walk for kilometers on Yonge Street preparing for the challenge ahead''.
That's a road, in Toronto, which is mainly flat, and I am pretty sure is located at sea-level. Honestly, that's all they said about her training. I assume she did more.
Sad she lost her life, also a bit sad Canada obsessed on it so long, and on such odd parts of it...
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby Tonka » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:15 pm

Here is a much longer article from Outside wich talks about what is going on with the new Napalese guiding companies. It also talks a lot about Shah. She had never been on a mountain, period. It relates back to 96 when everyone was talking about the socialite, Sandy Pittman having no experience but she had done Denali, Rainier and a number of other peaks.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/mountaineering/everest-2012/Take-a-Number.html?utm_source=dispatch&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=09132012
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby Ben Beckerich » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:30 pm

In the days that followed, the international media would seize upon these deaths as the latest proof of a now familiar claim: that the climbing scene on Everest is out of control.


Does anyone else cringe at this sentiment?

Let 'em die- it's their life to risk... and, obviously, nobody else is risking theirs to help. The word "control" should always be preceded by the word "personal."
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby TimB » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:42 pm

Interesting timing, here. Anyone else read those articles on Everest in the latest Rock and Ice?
Lots of sensationalism, mostly-I thought.
Almost as bad as a the mainstream media.

Anyway, sad deal for this lady, but what's life without risks?
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby radson » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:35 am

My lofty idea which will never be realised is that I think the price of the permit to climb Everest should be increased but credits given if someone has climbed other peaks in Nepal.

So for example $25,000 permit per person but if someone has climbed Manaslu/Dhaulagiri etc a credit of $15,000 is given. If they have climbed Baruntse maybe $10,000, Ama Dablam $7,000. The credit system perhaps weighted towards the lesser climbed peaks in the lesser visited regions.

So the increase disuades newbie climbers and steers people towards climbing other peaks in Nepal first before attempting the big 'E'.
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby Ben Beckerich » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:39 pm

radson wrote:My lofty idea which will never be realised is that I think the price of the permit to climb Everest should be increased but credits given if someone has climbed other peaks in Nepal.

So for example $25,000 permit per person but if someone has climbed Manaslu/Dhaulagiri etc a credit of $15,000 is given. If they have climbed Baruntse maybe $10,000, Ama Dablam $7,000. The credit system perhaps weighted towards the lesser climbed peaks in the lesser visited regions.

So the increase disuades newbie climbers and steers people towards climbing other peaks in Nepal first before attempting the big 'E'.


This is a really good idea, on one hand... but who's going to monitor it, verify climbing resumes, and maintain records and such?
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby radson » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:51 am

Ben, I'd dump it all at the feet of Elizabeth Hawley et al.
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby mtnjim » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:52 pm

radson wrote:My lofty idea which will never be realised is that I think the price of the permit to climb Everest should be increased but credits given if someone has climbed other peaks in Nepal.

So for example $25,000 permit per person but if someone has climbed Manaslu/Dhaulagiri etc a credit of $15,000 is given. If they have climbed Baruntse maybe $10,000, Ama Dablam $7,000. The credit system perhaps weighted towards the lesser climbed peaks in the lesser visited regions.

So the increase disuades newbie climbers and steers people towards climbing other peaks in Nepal first before attempting the big 'E'.


Couldn't disagree more. While this MIGHT encourage some climbers to gain more experience, it ABSOLUTELY WOULD put south side attempts on Everest out of reach for many less wealthy climbers.

Before my 2001 climb of Everest, I had summited Cho Oyu (1997) and had failed attempts on Shishapangma ('98) and Broad Peak ('99). Some trips to the Andes, too. None of these climbs would have qualified me for any discount and the increased fee would have made an Everest trip impossible for me.

One could be very experienced, very strong, with difficult high altitude climbs elsewhere in the world and still not qualify for any discount. Less monied climbers often go to South America to gain affordable high altitude experience. I know that Andes altitude won't really prepare you for 8000m climbs, but it will give you a very good idea of how you'll handle it.

Radson, I can see that the "peaks in Nepal" part of your proposal might make it more appealing to the Nepali government, but I can't see the extra cost chasing the rich-but inexperienced crowd away. Just the poor-but-experienced climbers like myself.

I'm reminded of a conversation about Himalayan expedition costs, with the emphasis on Everest I had with some climbers in 1995. One guy was pushing the viewpoint that the cost of an Everest expedition was actually a part of the training process, that somehow being able to afford it showed that you were qualified for it. Nope, just means you got the money.
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby mconnell » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:59 pm

radson wrote:My lofty idea which will never be realised is that I think the price of the permit to climb Everest should be increased but credits given if someone has climbed other peaks in Nepal.

So for example $25,000 permit per person but if someone has climbed Manaslu/Dhaulagiri etc a credit of $15,000 is given. If they have climbed Baruntse maybe $10,000, Ama Dablam $7,000. The credit system perhaps weighted towards the lesser climbed peaks in the lesser visited regions.

So the increase disuades newbie climbers and steers people towards climbing other peaks in Nepal first before attempting the big 'E'.


While this would make things a bit cheaper for experienced climbers (although only those that have visited Nepal, which I find a strange limitation), it would do nothing to keep inexperienced climbers with money off the mountain. The only way to do that would be to require climbing experience to get any permit, but that is very difficult to verify.
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby radson » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Let's not get our knickers in a knot ,it's never going to happen..

But the aim is to reduce crowding while maintaining revenue for the Nepali government (Even though that raises a whole other question of where the money goes). The 'strange limitation' is due to the fact that it is somewhat more easy to verify summits within Nepal and perhaps Tibet with the framework and standards developed by Hawley.

No foreigner who climbs Everest is 'poor'
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Re: Canadian woman dies on Everest this year.

Postby mconnell » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:54 am

radson wrote:
No foreigner who climbs Everest is 'poor'


Not by their standards, but an REI night watchman living in the back of a pickup for 2 years ain't exactly rich (someone I used to know that attempted Everest).
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