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Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

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Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby LesterLong » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:38 pm

I live in New York City and work 12 hours a day all year. I have climbed Mt. Washington, Mt. Mitchell, Mt. Elbert, Ben Nevis, and got nearly to the top of Mt. Baker. I do get some breaks throughout the year and I am excited to set goals to climb during those breaks. I lift weights three times a week. I bought a Heart Rate Monitor (Garmin 610). Does anyone here use a StepMill (basically a Stairmaster but with 'real' stairs)?

The thread is based on a quote in Freedom of the Hills that says that a base level of fitness is being able to climb 1,200 to 1,800 vertical feet with about 1/3 of your body weight in your hiking boots. Since I don't have any mountains, I'm using a Stepmill. Right now I'm doing about 1,500 feet in 30 minutes, with no pack or boots. Would you suggest adding weight, or time?
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby LesterLong » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:28 am

The exact quote from Freedom of the Hills is:

"...add about 5 pounds to your pack every other week until you can carry up to one third of your body weight and comfortably gain roughly 1,200 to 1,500 feet an hour in hiking boots over moderate terrain."
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby bird » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:05 pm

It's strange, something about the "stepmill" tweaks my knee. I can do regular stairs fine, when I'm in hotels I'll often use them for exercise, but the stepmill just hit's it the wrong way. Before a climbing trip I'll use the treadmill set on the steepest angle and a pack.
I train for overall fitness most of the year, and then tilt towards hiking/climbing training as the trip approaches. Doing stairs for 52 weeks seems pretty boring, and neglects a lot of your body.
Check out this article http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/eve ... e-20120504
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby BigMitch » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:58 pm

No, but I suggest that you do what Bird suggests. I haul a heavy pack up and down hills and on a treadmill, drag tires on asphalt bike paths, run hard intervals, and do some resistance workouts.

Now you have me thinking of climbing up a down escalator with a heavy pack and boots.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby Tonka » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:46 pm

I live in New York City and work 12 hours a day all year.


I think you should first adjust your work/life balance :? but then again a don't have a lot of career motivation :)

I think you can achieve a good base without specific mountain types of training although I do some stair climbing. I also run 3 -5 times a week, lift a couple and play on a volleyball team. I then use this base to do my hikes/climbs. I have been able to get 8 -10 long outings (14er, R to R, Kili) per year which pays off also. If you're only doing 1 or 2 outing per year your training may need to be a little more focused. Now if I lived in CO I would probably get into ski town bartender/shedder shape :)
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby nartreb » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:52 pm

>Would you suggest adding weight, or time?

Both, though not necessarily on the same day.

If you're planning to carry camping and/or climbing gear, put that (or equivalent weight) in your pack on your half-hour steep stair-climbing days. This'll build up your thigh and calf muscles.

Also go at least an hour (treadmill or stairs or bike or whatever), either without weight or at a gentler pace, at least once a week. This is for cardio and endurance.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby CClaude » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:37 am

Personally, I'd save my knees...I say that from personal experience having had knee surgery on both.

For the bulk of your workouts, forgo the extra weight. Periodize your workouts. Start with an endurance phase and every other day, use the stairmaster for 60-90minutes but maintain the pace at about 75% heart rate. On the other days go easier like 60% effort for 45 minutes
When you go out climbing, offer to carry other peoples gear.

The next phase would be power-endurance, in which the hard days do interval work with hard efforts of 85% efforts alternating wih 65% effots. On the easier days do 65% efforts for 45 min. Some hard days do steady state workouts, which would be 84% effort for 1+ hrs.

The last phase would be power phase. On hard days go really hard, alternating with really easy.

On days you aren't working out, go climbing. Don't just train, go out and have fun, and use your fitness.

Personally, the only time I carry a pack is on approaches or backpacking, and when I climb, some of the approachs are 1hr+ uphill with a large rack and two ropes.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby moonspots » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 am

BigMitch wrote:...Now you have me thinking of climbing up a down escalator with a heavy pack and boots.


That would have made a BIG difference for me last month (I summited RaInier for the first time), and the final trek down the snowfield really wore me out.

However, the stairmill was an excellent addition to the local gym, and I attribute some of my success to using it. I put on a ~30lb pack and hiking boots with an additional 2lbs on each foot. I eventually worked up to 100-120 "flights" of stairs this way, and that was well worth the effort.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby LesterLong » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:44 pm

bird wrote:It's strange, something about the "stepmill" tweaks my knee. I can do regular stairs fine, when I'm in hotels I'll often use them for exercise, but the stepmill just hit's it the wrong way. Before a climbing trip I'll use the treadmill set on the steepest angle and a pack.
I train for overall fitness most of the year, and then tilt towards hiking/climbing training as the trip approaches. Doing stairs for 52 weeks seems pretty boring, and neglects a lot of your body.
Check out this article http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/eve ... e-20120504


Thanks for the article Bird. I had read it before, but could always use another read. :)

My knee got tweaked on the stepmill last week, but I think it was just overuse, as it's fine now. If it keeps up, I'll start doing regular stairs (which in NYC we have plenty of). Unfortunately the Empire State Building doesn't let people take the stairs anymore.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby jdenyes » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:58 pm

So you guys do this with weight, in hiking boots, in your house or at the local gym? I am always wanting to go do it at the school gym, but am fairly concerned about the reaction of both the other gym goers and the supervisors. Has anyone had any problems like that after walking into the gym in hiking boots with a back pack? :-D
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby divnamite » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:12 pm

LesterLong wrote:I live in New York City and work 12 hours a day all year. I have climbed Mt. Washington, Mt. Mitchell, Mt. Elbert, Ben Nevis, and got nearly to the top of Mt. Baker. I do get some breaks throughout the year and I am excited to set goals to climb during those breaks. I lift weights three times a week. I bought a Heart Rate Monitor (Garmin 610). Does anyone here use a StepMill (basically a Stairmaster but with 'real' stairs)?

The thread is based on a quote in Freedom of the Hills that says that a base level of fitness is being able to climb 1,200 to 1,800 vertical feet with about 1/3 of your body weight in your hiking boots. Since I don't have any mountains, I'm using a Stepmill. Right now I'm doing about 1,500 feet in 30 minutes, with no pack or boots. Would you suggest adding weight, or time?


Miami is a flatland city, NYC is not. Look around, there are plenty of places where you get 1,200 - 1,800 feet of elevation gain within a few hour drive of of NYC.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby johngenx » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:40 am

I work out at the gym with my pack on. Yeah, I look like a geek, but so what? When it comes time to shoulder a pack, I'm ready. I get out to the mountains as much as possible, but when I can't, I train at home. I trail run, do stairs and incline training with a big pack (70lbs to my 155lbs bw) on, resistance training, and muscular endurance training. I do a crossfit type of workout created by a trainer.

At least 2-3 times per week I log 1500M of vert with the pack on. (~4700')
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby coldfoot » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:26 am

LesterLong wrote:The thread is based on a quote in Freedom of the Hills that says that a base level of fitness is being able to climb 1,200 to 1,800 vertical feet with about 1/3 of your body weight in your hiking boots.


Something that wasn't discussed here is what that FOTH quote is a base level of fitness for. I looked in FOTH - my copy is older, and it doesn't have that exact quote, but it has something similar in a discussion of expedition fitness. This is presumably very different from peakbagging. I mean, you don't have to be able to pack 1/3rd your body weight uphill to climb Mt. Elbert, or any Colorado or California peak for that matter. It's not a bad idea to make training resemble the activity you are training for, so if you intend to do long trips where you have to pack in 50-70 lbs and plod slowly for multiple days, that's one thing, but if you want to do 1-2 night excursions to peaks, then training by walking around with a 50-70 lb pack seems like a way to strain yourself.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby radson » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:19 am

I would imagine, living in NYC there is some awesome stair running opportunities. That's what I would like to be doing. Running up stairs two at a time, just working on my Lactate Threshold. Burn baby burn.
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Re: Flatlander City-Boy Training Based on FOTH quote

Postby Ben Beckerich » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:19 pm

radson wrote:I would imagine, living in NYC there is some awesome stair running opportunities. That's what I would like to be doing. Running up stairs two at a time, just working on my Lactate Threshold. Burn baby burn.


Yep.. wish I had access to huge staircases. Stair climbing with a pack and stair running about as good as it gets, for long slog training.
where am i going... and why am i in this handbasket?
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