This site needs more attention than it has beern getting, regardless of the reasons and excuses for it.

When it comes to the web one must be dynamic and responsive. The opposite of what you propose. Take the home page for example. It is stale and outdated. How many major sites do you visit where the home page is identical for seven days straight with only a single bullshit tiny photo halfway down the page changing day-to-day?

Didn't Matt just say that he was trying to make changes? Someone is finally looking into improvements and it seems that you want to run them off.

Wouldn't a chat feature or moving this thread to a chatroom make it better?

mrchad9 wrote:.

When it comes to the web one must be dynamic and responsive.

+1 --- AND, a member must have very TOUGH skin when posting comments in the Forum.

Humor, does anybody understand what it is anymore ?

I was commenting on what the OP wrote. The CHAT FEATURE ... YES or NO I give a definite NO ... WHY do we need it ?

Here's the original post, by the way ...

Diego Sahagún wrote:Where is the chat now Can't see it.

Gracias

mrchad9 wrote:When it comes to the web one must be dynamic and responsive. The opposite of what you propose.

Now we can both agree that this site needs to be more dynamic. A frontpage that is changing more would be nice. But how was my post the opposite of this? I don't want SP to have a stale look. That is the main reason I volunteered for this. We've even talked in private about this (well we touched on it in private).

The Chief wrote:No.. just want to know who your Meth hookup is. Cus they most certainly must be mixing it up with some good old Acid.

This post is toxic on so many different levels. C'mon Chief, stay focused. I was using humor. Lets get back to constructive thinking. So with the given circumstances what do you propose?

I'd answer the few other points Chad made, but I don't want to steal away from the thread. If anything I'm trying to make things ease up.

Dow Williams wrote:You cannot afford to pay a professional to do this work?

I take it that is a no?

Bring the chat back and take those games away please

"Traffic to the site has increased 50% in each of the last two years."

Assuming the increased ad revenue can't cover it, I am more than willing to donate money to hire a professional "legitimate" concern to make design changes for SP. You know my email.

Josh your pages demonstrate a lot of programming knowledge, but hijacking the look and feel of the site, or changing it at all, is not what is needed. More substantive changes, that would be easy to implement, that would improve access to content and usability of the site are more productive. The color schemes are fine as is. If your girlfriend has gotten lazy and boring and does nothing all day but sit on the couch watching TV and eating Cheetos, dying her hair is not the solution.

Matt you seem to be wanting props for keeping the site running, but in reality I think most would agree that is the bare minimum of what should be done. How do you and the other owners reconcile spending less hours on the site you own than many of the members here spend for free adding content every year? And with all this extra traffic you can't get a real programmer? How do the ad revenues now compare to two years ago?

Matt, thanks for keeping the site running. It does seem to be faster lately.

Anyway, most of the changes actually needed (at least in my opinion) are pretty minor. For example, the email system doesn't work and needs to go. You can't respond to an email, so it doesn't do any good to recieve them.

If some FAQ's or intructions could be displayed right when you add a new page, it would really help new members.

Other than minor details, the site is perfectly functional (assuming it doesn't crash or get bogged down-which it sounds like you have been keeping up on), which is fine by me. Most people come here to share and recieve climbing beta I think, so in that sense most things are fine the way they are.

I like chat.

Scott you don't have much basis for saying most members don't want chat. The number of members who post in such threads on the topic is not representative of the membership as a whole. I'd bet any amount you like that the majority of members are completely indifferent. Heck most probably never even knew about it.

Not sure why anyone feels the need to be against it. If you don't use it, be indifferent. If some folks find it useful it doesn't stop you from avoiding it.

Take a look at Mountain Project...they are way ahead of you. They don't have "elves" constantly plastering their own bodies of work on the front page and ignoring those for who they have a hard-on for. Take a leap of faith and make the site more dynamic. Be more objective, don't just listen to people who kiss your ass. Listen to those of us who challenge you to do better as well. Invest in the adventure community, real people who do interesting things, that is your market. The current elf population has a hard-on for climbers, both rock and ice. How many of those do you have left? who contribute to the site? That is a big part of the market for the internet site you bought into with your time. Allow the viewers at large (not select members or even the member body) to determine what is interesting, or not, in terms of promoting the site. That is how successful internet enterprises function.

From this perspective (dynamic/interesting) SP is practically dead. It is worth many times less then what its potential was in 2007, not just because of the economy, but because of nothing interesting to offer in terms of growth or new "contributing" members. Your visitations are up due to solid beta on the site that have gained traction in Google order...because it is worthy. That part has always been well done on SP...the format for encouraging and improving detailed beta pages, etc.

If you want to do it right, but can't afford to as you state and don't have enough ad revenue to cover it, I am more than willing to DONATE money to hire a true third party designer to perform the makeovers you want versus handing it over to someone who has shown a propensity for manipulation. You really need to start steering the site away from that kind of conduct if you want it to ever earn its keep and pay you for your time.

Scott wrote:Matt, thanks for keeping the site running. It does seem to be faster lately.

Anyway, most of the changes actually needed (at least in my opinion) are pretty minor. For example, the email system doesn't work and needs to go. You can't respond to an email, so it doesn't do any good to recieve them.

If some FAQ's or intructions could be displayed right when you add a new page, it would really help new members.

Other than minor details, the site is perfectly functional (assuming it doesn't crash or get bogged down-which it sounds like you have been keeping up on), which is fine by me. Most people come here to share and recieve climbing beta I think, so in that sense most things are fine the way they are.

Bring the chat back

Diego, you seem to be missing the point that by far and away most SP members do not want this feature.

Do you have any statistics about that

Do you have any statistics about that?

No, just threads (which are linked as related at the bottom of this thread). I never participated in them because it wasn't a pressing issue to me.

Many people have said they thought it made SP too much like FB and were worried that it would attract the wrong crowd, or people on the site for the "wrong" reasons. I'm mostly indifferent, but think that if the majority of members want it gone, it should be gone and if the majority want it to stay, then it should stay.

If you think that most people really do want it, then you (or Chad) should start a poll on the matter. In fact, it could be an excuse to bring the polling feature back. That feature I do miss.

Matt... we've traded PMs in the past, just as you are requesting folks do here. Your response was that you liked the suggestions but didn't plan to act on any of them.

If you think I have a soured attitude I assure you it is just a byproduct of frustration. Apparently (based on your recent posts above) you are trying to make decisions on how to change and run this site but you don't even really know how it is being run or used by most of the members today!

And I urge you to spend more time on functionality, features, accessibility, and interfaces than cosmetic and inconsequential stuff like colors schemes and shading and the look and feel. Folks are seeking real maintenance, not a paint job. If any time is going to be spent just make it count.

Scott wrote:

Do you have any statistics about that?

No.

Don't follow saying what SPers think then...