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Could I do Aconcagua?

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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby Scott » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:10 pm

Because you seems to choose to ignore name calling on me simply based on the ground that i dont agree with you.


This is name calling:

Simply some people are just too lazy to think.

Just a simple note for reminder in case somebody never learn to read properly.

You are allowed to disagree with anyone you want or to have any opinion that you want. Having a right to express an opinion though doesn't mean that you are free from criticism if you say something that you don't agree with it, nor does it mean that you are free to call people names when they point out an error.

The fact i am stressing on is the use of medication helps and it is more important to use it as preventive rather than remedy.


Although I agree that it can help, but I will also that it can also mask symptoms and has side effects (which may affect everyone) and that acclimatization is more important. It also can give a false sense of security. No doctor, experienced climber, etc, would disagree with any of this. You seem to claim that medication is just as important (or even more so) as acclimatization, at least that's what it sounds like; You probably going to hear a lot of people telling you that it is not important for the medication, proper acclamatization is the key. The thing is, they know too little about altitude sickness. Maybe there was something lost in the translation/language, but I and others certainly thought that you made it sound like medication is as or more important than proper acclimatization.

You still haven't stated which mountains you have climbed and your experience.

PS: you choose to mention regarding mount fuji and said that it is not a norm. then i wonder what do you call as a norm?


A norm or "general rule" in your own word is what most people do on expeditions. For example, stating above 7000m, one would require artificial oxygen implies that everyone would need it above 7000 meters. As mentioned many times, expeditions using oxygen at 7000 meters are extremely rare (even on fully guided expeditions). This one isn't simply a matter of opinion, but is a true statement.

Besides this you are doing yourself no favors in trying to call names or trying to argue proven points rather than just opinions. You also seem to try and twist words or opinions about what people are really saying. Perhaps it wasn't intentional and was a language barrier, so maybe I'll try and be more lenient.

I was going to just ignore your post, but posted the above, just as a friendly and final warning to use please use caution/discretion in your post.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby ibelieveindevil » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:06 pm

Scott wrote:
Because you seems to choose to ignore name calling on me simply based on the ground that i dont agree with you.


This is name calling:

Simply some people are just too lazy to think.

Just a simple note for reminder in case somebody never learn to read properly.

You are allowed to disagree with anyone you want or to have any opinion that you want. Having a right to express an opinion though doesn't mean that you are free from criticism if you say something that you don't agree with it, nor does it mean that you are free to call people names when they point out an error.

The fact i am stressing on is the use of medication helps and it is more important to use it as preventive rather than remedy.


Although I agree that it can help, but I will also that it can also mask symptoms and has side effects (which don't affect everyone) and that acclimatization is more important. You seem to claim that medication is just as important (or even more so) as acclimatization, at least that's what it sounds like; You probably going to hear a lot of people telling you that it is not important for the medication, proper acclamatization is the key. The thing is, they know too little about altitude sickness.

You still haven't stated which mountains you have climbed.

PS: you choose to mention regarding mount fuji and said that it is not a norm. then i wonder what do you call as a norm?


A norm or general rule in your own word is what most people do on expeditions. For example, stating above 7000m, one would require artificial oxygen implies that everyone would need it above 7000 meters. As mentioned many times, expeditions using oxygen at 7000 meters is extremely rare (even on fully guided expeditions).

Simply some people are just too lazy to think.

Just a simple note for reminder in case somebody never learn to read properly.

it is because of things like these that i need to remind people to think before they post.

3000m has about the same pressure as a commercial airline cabin. Most people on a commercial flight do not take diamox. You say a basic guide is to use diamox at 3000 meters. This isn't true in any place I've climbed. Did the doctor also recommend it when flying a plane?

well guess if i am running a marathon or climbing up the ceiling of the planes and do my cardio on a plane, my doctor will tell me to take my pills. btw cabin altitude is around 2000m for most commercial planes though, 2100m for boeing 767, 1800m for boeing 787, the below regulations are set at 8000ft, thats around 2400m by law.

Civil Aviation Authority. CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and Regulations. London: Civil Aviation Authority, 2003.
Federal Aviation Administration. FAR Code of US Federal Regulations. Parts 25, 121 and 125. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, 2004.

oh btw, you seems to agree, thanked this post: i wonder whats the difference?

They know more than you, who have shown yourself to be dangerously ignorant and arrogantly presumptuous.
This reply by 'ibelieveindevil' is one of the worst advice posts I have ever seen on Summitpost.


I mentioned repeatedly, but you just choose to ignore despite several reminders, that i never say acclimatization is not important. you are correct that i believe medication is just as important, although i would never say it is more important. I am not sure why medication should be use as a remedy, as the effect of it being a remedy is already proven to be less effectivge than its preventive usage.

Back to the 7000m and 8000m debate again: why 8000m? probably because everyone call it deathzone. the thing is, thats something coined in 1953, and proven to be medically inaccurate by today standard. many modern reclassification make it at 7500m.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby Scott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:02 am

btw cabin altitude is around 2000m for most commercial planes though, 2100m for boeing 767, 1800m for boeing 787, the below regulations are set at 8000ft, thats around 2400m by law.


Agreed. Unless you fly the dreamliner (787) [I haven't], 2100-2400 meters is a fair assessment. I said "about the same pressure", but your figure is much more precise and accurate.

They know more than you, who have shown yourself to be dangerously ignorant and arrogantly presumptuous.
This reply by 'ibelieveindevil' is one of the worst advice posts I have ever seen on Summitpost.


Fair enough, especially with the first sentence. Damien is very experienced and has some good advice, but I can see how that part of the post was a bit harsh and could have been more diplomatic.

I mentioned repeatedly, but you just choose to ignore despite several reminders, that i never say acclimatization is not important.


Actually, after the reminders, I did see that, and agree with this part.

you are correct that i believe medication is just as important


This part is I don't agree with (most people here don't), but that's your opinion. I think acclimatization is far more important, and we probably won't agree on this. Your first post did seem that you thought it was more important, but I and others do see that you clarified this.

One thing perhaps that we could agree on is that whoever is considering altitude medications talk to their doctor rather than just getting the information from an online forum.

As mentioned, I have actually used Diamox and it wasn't pleasant, but I am not against someone using it. Your experience using it was pleasant and I think we'd agree that any medication affects a person differently.

Back to the 7000m and 8000m debate again: why 8000m? probably because everyone call it deathzone. the thing is, thats something coined in 1953, and proven to be medically inaccurate by today standard. many modern reclassification make it at 7500m.


There's actually a lot more to it than that, but perhaps it would be better to discuss privately and is beyond the scope of someone looking for information on Aconcagua. Feel free to PM me, but I think it best to leave this thread as it is.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby radson » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:04 am

Oh....you are soooo wrong ibeleiveindevil. So wrong.. as in super cringeworthy, peeking through fingers, passing by a car wreck and know you should be looking but still kind of interested to see what is happening wrong.

I am sooo impressed with Scott's patience with you. Scott is not backing himself in the corner, tying himself in knots, trying to extract himself with semantics. He knows this is a public forum where people come to seek information and advice. Damien is of similar ilk, ensuring that dangerous myths about acclimatisation are not propogated by people who seek chinese herbal remedies for what we all agree can be a very deadly affliction.

ibeleiveindevil, listen and learn. Stop being so dogmatic and stubborn. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge on this forum. Unfortunately, at present, you are currently part of the problem and not the solution.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby kevin trieu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:53 am

Don't know how some of you can be so patience and actually take the time to post in a civilized manner. I would still be interested in this person's mountain climbing experience or maybe lack there of.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby Damien Gildea » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:22 am

Bob Sihler wrote: I'm not sure if he's trolling, but people are definitely feeding him...


Ah, Bob, well, nowadays I'm quite happy to ignore posts I don't agree with, but ibelieveindevil's original reply post was simply dangerous and factually incorrect advice, on a critical subject. I would hate that an inexperienced person looking around the net for advice came across it and took it at all seriously.

Allowing stuff like that to stand unchallenged would speak to the overall worth and authenticity of Summitpost as a site of value, made by a knowledgeable, experienced and caring community. Which it is. Mostly... :D

Meow.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby drManhattan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:55 am

Wow! Haha I completely forgot about this post and just read the last couple of pages of arguing :)

Firstly when I said "I have not taken any acclimitisation medicine anywhere" I did not mean I never carried any. I meant I have never actually ingested anything because I have never needed it. I am well aware of acclimitisation etc

For those asking about my climbing/altitude experience I have climbed Elbrus as well as Huayna Potosi and Island Peak which are both >6000m. Trekked to Annapurna and Everest basecamps been up Gokyo Ri and Kala Pattar and done some other small stuff like the Inca trail/Machu Picchu etc.

When I say Elbrus was "hard" I guess I am overplaying it a bit, I have found every mountain hard but I don't think my acclimitisation was good at all. I basically went from 2100m to 4500m and back to the Barrell huts at 3800m in one day, I struggled a bit physically and got a good headache from that, then had a rest day and went for the summit early the next morning. The weather going up was the worst I have experienced so far (not saying much though it really wasnt THAT bad). I found my energy to really drop going up that long walk up the west summit just after the saddle, it seemed to be endless.

My fitness could definitely be better absolutely no doubt about it, and it will be when I do Aconcagua. At this stage due to work commitments and financials ive decided to postpone it until December 2014. I cant get the time off work so would need to quit my job which I am not in the position to do right now.

Thanks everyone for their responses though. :)
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby Sunny Buns » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:49 am

Sounds like you have plenty of experience for Aconcagua (~22,841'). Follow previous advice and allow plenty of time for acclimatization as suggested. Carry Diamox in your pack for use only if you have problems. Get in shape, and assuming you are doing the normal route, spend 2 nights at Puenta del Inca (~9,000'), 2 nights at Confluencia (~11,000'), 4 nights at Plaza de Mulas (~14,500'), 1 night at Canada (~16,000'), 2-3 nights at Nido de Condores (~18,250'), etc. Because you carry loads on Aconcagua you never have to carry all your gear at once on the way up - I think that helps make it easier. Read the gear lists for the commercial guided trips so you don't forget something. If you are really worried about it you might take an extra week and go backpacking for a few days at moderate elevations before the climb or just hang out at Puenta del Inca for a few days and do day-hikes up the hills. Might be a better place to hang out without an army installation nearby - anyone know a better spot to hang out and do day hikes?

Have fun.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby drManhattan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:50 pm

Alright looking into doing this at the end of this year now I went and did Kilimanjaro for something a bit different last month it was ok.

Looking to do something for pre acclimitisation for this trip. Maybe head to Mexico or Ecuador beforehand or even Nepal in Nov and just do something liek the Annapurna Circuit.

My training will begin this month, as I believe I am that far out from being in the right shape for this climb. I am thinking of going with a Western guide outfit considering how much of a step up this is for me.

Thoughts?
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby radson » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:56 am

Mate, you have 9 months, heaps of time. I personally don't think you would get any extra value from employing 'western' guides. The argentinians have the place totally dialled in. I must admit I went straight to Aconcagua after 5 weeks in Nepal and it helped me greatly but not in terms of acclimatisation, more just being hike/climb fit.

I am still a bit flummoxed as to why you think Aconcagua is such a big step up, considering your HA experience.
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby drManhattan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:38 pm

radson wrote:Mate, you have 9 months, heaps of time. I personally don't think you would get any extra value from employing 'western' guides. The argentinians have the place totally dialled in. I must admit I went straight to Aconcagua after 5 weeks in Nepal and it helped me greatly but not in terms of acclimatisation, more just being hike/climb fit.

I am still a bit flummoxed as to why you think Aconcagua is such a big step up, considering your HA experience.


I just think its a level up from what I have done. I guess better to be too cautious than too reckless :D good to know Nepal helped. Think I might look to do something similar.

If the Argentinians have it dialled in maybe I will use someone like grajales?
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby Sunny Buns » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:36 am

Where do you live?

If you are in the US, just go to a high town in Colorado like Leadville or Telluride and spend a week or 2 camping out and climbing easy hills.

Which route do you want to take on Aconcagua? I've only done the normal route, and I only made it to Nido (18K) but I can tell you that getting that far is very easy. Nothing steep to that point. Stay 4-5 nights in basecamp (14.5K) before moving up to Canada (16K), then an easy stroll up to Nido at 18K. Unfortunately I can't tell you how it is above Nido, but if you WANT to do it bad enough you'll do fine.

The key is persistence in the face of tent partners you don't get along with, crappy camping conditions, shitty weather, etc. Those who WANT it will make the summit - the rest turn around; that is assuming you don't get sick from altitude, etc.

Go ahead and sign up with the company that looks good to you; prepare and have a nice adventure! Then write a trip report (with your photo by that aluminum cross) that will make us all jealous!!!! :0
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Re: Could I do Aconcagua?

Postby drManhattan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:21 am

Sunny Buns wrote:Where do you live?

If you are in the US, just go to a high town in Colorado like Leadville or Telluride and spend a week or 2 camping out and climbing easy hills.

Which route do you want to take on Aconcagua? I've only done the normal route, and I only made it to Nido (18K) but I can tell you that getting that far is very easy. Nothing steep to that point. Stay 4-5 nights in basecamp (14.5K) before moving up to Canada (16K), then an easy stroll up to Nido at 18K. Unfortunately I can't tell you how it is above Nido, but if you WANT to do it bad enough you'll do fine.

The key is persistence in the face of tent partners you don't get along with, crappy camping conditions, shitty weather, etc. Those who WANT it will make the summit - the rest turn around; that is assuming you don't get sick from altitude, etc.

Go ahead and sign up with the company that looks good to you; prepare and have a nice adventure! Then write a trip report (with your photo by that aluminum cross) that will make us all jealous!!!! :0


I live in Australia probably the flattest place on the planet! I am not that lucky.

I haven't looked at the routes in depth yet so I am not sure. I guess the normal or polish travere based on initial looks but I don't know yet.

I have been lucky on my 4 high altitude climbs I haven't really ever been hit by altitude other than one day on Elbrus.
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