How are the conditions in mid to late Oct? Is there any snow at the summit? Which is the best way to reach the summit? Vivian Creek or Fish Creek?

If I choose Vivian Creek as a day trip.. how fit do I need to be? I workout about an hour a day right now, doing 5 miles on the elliptical/treadmill and on the weekends about 15 miles bicycling without much of a problem.

Finally, is it a bad idea to do this solo? Is the trail well traversed? Is it a better idea to camp midway or do it as a day trip?

it is possible but not likely that you would see snow on the summit at that time. you would need to check conditions immediately prior, as the summit has seen snow in every month of the year.

i hate the vivian creek trail, but it's the most popular. from a safety standpoint, it is extremely heavily travelled, so as long as you don't fall off it, you should get help fairly easily.

more than your fitness level is your altitude tolerance. not knowing what it is, i cannot speak to it, but i will say that it is not uncommon to see folks puking on the trail; i have personally witnessed it numerous times.

from a basic fitness level, however, you seem to be ready, so get an early start, go slow, stay hydrated, and turn around if you start feeling ill and headachy.

edited to add: since you appear to have the flexibility of an extra day on the mountain, i'd plan on it anyway. that area (the sgwa) is too beautiful to rush through.

I think bscott's comments are right on. A couple more things: that first mile on the Vivian Creek Trail (after you cross Mill Creek and get onto the trail) is extremely steep but after the first mile it gets less so. Second: getting to Halfway Camp is always deceptive; no way is it half way in terms of the effort yet remaining to get to the summit. START EARLY.

Have you done any other mountains in SoCal? San Jacinto or anything in that range? Baldy? You have a lot of questions to be going for the tallest peak in SoCal. Anyone should be able to hike it in a day if they are fit and the weather does not become inclement. Vivian Creek is a drag though, I much prefer the north side from Jenks Lake.

It could range from warm and sunny to blizzard, so just be aware. Did Vivian Creek route in August luckily the day after I returned from an extended trip in the Sierras so the altitude was a non-issue, but did see a few people turn back on the switchbacks above High Creek camp. As for Vivian Creek vs. Fish Creek I think:

Vivan Creek is ~ 18.5 miles and 5700 feet of gain.

Fish Creek route is about 20 miles? with 3,500 feet of gain? (Not sure just going from what I heard)

So perhaps the Fish Creek Route, while longer, may actually be easier. Anyway, you shouldn't have a problem if you start early enough just prepare to be very tired haha.

Good Luck!

Heed the warnings about weather. I've been hailed on and snowed on at the summit (Sept.) and been surrounded by lightning on the way down one time. I was on top of the weather reports in all these cases but such weather can hit unexpectedly. Take your rain gear.

My favorite way to get to the summit of San Gorgonio is starting at the South Fork Trailhead. You can do a lollipop loop by going up the Dollar Lake Trail and down the Dry Lake Trail or the other way around - that's about 21 to 23 miles with 4700'gain/loss - mostly gentle. If you like loose steep chutes and other interesting terrain, you can cut that down to about 15 miles or even 13 miles if there is snow covering the bushes, but I would suggest you stick to the trail your first time out there.

At the same time, the Aspen Grove on the way to the Fish Creek Trailhead should be beautiful the first week in October. You could even start at the Aspen Grove Trailhead instead of the Fish Creek Trailhead. The dirt road to the Fish Creek Trailhead can be rough. I don't know if it has been graded recently. If you do check out the Aspen Grove and have the time, most of the color is downstream; so you will miss a lot of it if you just drop down the trail to the creek and continue upstream toward the Fish Creek Trailhead without taking a detour downstream first.

Trail info:

http://www.sgwa.org/Wilderness_Mileage.pdf

PS: Seasonal patrols end the first weekend in October and it is very nice out there once the crowds and trail police are gone.

The road out to Fish Creek TH is fairly decent. The Fish Creek trail is just a tadbit more shaded until you hit the junction from Dollar Lake. After that, its more exposed. Its still pretty warm this week and going up the south side of San G (Vivian Creek) can get pretty hot. If you go that way, an early start is advised.

I agree with what others have said, especially Deb and Augie. In fact I solo'd Vivan Creek almost exactly one month ago. Here's my thoughts to add, just my 2 cents, feel free to take what you like and leave the rest:

- Vivian Creek is solo-able, just plan for a very long day. Mine was 14 hours, largely for many scenic stops, food breaks, and then bad-fitting boots got the best of my soles on descent. Expect approx 9-12 hours depending upon your pace with good shoes and minimal breaks. And remember days are getting short! Expect the altitude to slow you down as well, it just might.

- As of early Sept 2014, VC trail conditions were fantastic. Well-maintained, well marked, no washouts or hazards, very easy route-finding. Impossible to get lost on this one. And yes, Halfway Camp is a misnomer I agree! It's only about 1/3 of the way to the top. Double check with Mill Creek Ranger Station

- Yes, watch for weather - can turn on a dime. In my case it was luck, I slipped right in a short day-long window between storms from the Pacific hurricanes. Was on Baldy 2 weeks ago and saw no snow on San G. Couldn't get a good look from Ontario Peak area last weekend though when the brief weather dip passed through the LA area, we were completely immersed in clouds at the top. So I've got no idea if any snow got dumped. I would guess that unless some actual major storm blows through, conditions are still bone dry on the summit. I often use weather.gov (NWS) to check specific points like summits before I hike, and for San G I use 'Forest Falls, CA' as a reference point on Weather Underground for a cross-check. Watch those between now and your hike. If nothing hits the area, you should be fine.

- Vivian Creek had an OK water flow given current drought. High Camp Creek near the trail was pretty much dried up to a muddy trickle though the waterfall further down had a strong flow.

- I began VC just before 5:30AM and I wasn't only one with that idea. Both for the daylight and beating the heat. Prepare that some part of your VC trip to be in the dark.

- In agreement with others, VC is steep - and the most direct route to the summit from a trailhead. There's a deceiving-pleasant 3 mile stretch (and the first mile too), but you make up for that lack of gain higher up on the summit push. Think 'Baldy'-steep, but sustained for far longer. I think VC is the steepest or close-second steepest trail for San G as far as distance to gain.

- There are black bears in the area, among other larger animals. Didn't see one during my hike. But, when arriving to the trailhead the silhouette of one ambled across the road in front of my headlights. And after sunset heard one somewhat nearby in Mill Creek wash on my way out. But, I did see a small family of mule deer around sunset. Apparently as of Sept 2014, SGW mentioned bears have been a problem in the Halfway Camp area specifically and driving campers out. Bear canister for camping.

- Permit required to enter SGW, either by fax or self-service at Mill Creek Ranger Station. I did fax and then have them mail it to me just to be safe. Plan ahead, weekend days likely fill up sooner and are harder to get approved on. I applied for a Friday and did so about 2.5 weeks in advance. (The following is apparently no longer valid, thanks KathyW for the correction) If doing VC, will need a daypass, adventure pass, or interagency pass just to park your car. I think some San G trail heads don't require passes, but VC certainly does.

- Fitness: you sound to be in good shape. But, don't underestimate VC - it's a beast. Have you hiked some of the other San Gabriels, as someone else mentioned? Wilson? Lukens? Baldy? Three T's? Even though you mention cycling and treadmill running, you speak nothing of what 'type' of stress you are placing your body under. If open to a suggestion, start add stair/bleacher runs, uphill sprint intervals, and sustained uphill trail or road running (even uphill cycling). It's a steep hike, so try to mimic your objective in your training as you approach it.

Good luck on the hike!

amongtheclouds wrote:
If doing VC, will need a daypass, adventure pass, or interagency pass just to park your car. I think some San G trail heads don't require passes, but VC certainly does.

You do not need an adventure pass or interagency pass to park in the Vivian Creek Trailhead Parking area and hike from there unless you use the facilities; so if you avoid the restroom don't bother with a pass. The uninformed enforcement officers or volunteers might try to tell you that you need one and even ticket you, but you can just ignore it because they are in the wrong and there is nothing they can do to force you to pay up. They might have finally stopped giving out the tickets for not having a pass since the last court ruling on the issue, but they have historically tried to bully people into buying a pass at the Vivian Creek Trailhead. Of course those that benefit from the money the most are trying to push through a new recreation fee bill that will expand where and when fees can be collected on public land. For now though, a pass is never required even in fee areas when you just park and do not use the facilities. The fee is for use of the facilities.

KathyW wrote:

amongtheclouds wrote:
If doing VC, will need a daypass, adventure pass, or interagency pass just to park your car. I think some San G trail heads don't require passes, but VC certainly does.

You do not need an adventure pass or interagency pass to park in the Vivian Creek Trailhead Parking area and hike from there unless you use the facilities; so if you avoid the restroom don't bother with a pass. The uninformed enforcement officers or volunteers might try to tell you that you need one and even ticket you, but you can just ignore it because they are in the wrong and there is nothing they can do to force you to pay up. They might have finally stopped giving out the tickets for not having a pass since the last court ruling on the issue, but they have historically tried to bully people into buying a pass at the Vivian Creek Trailhead. Of course those that benefit from the money the most are trying to push through a new recreation fee bill that will expand where and when fees can be collected on public land. For now though, a pass is never required even in fee areas when you just park and do not use the facilities. The fee is for use of the facilities.

Thanks, that's news to me. I'd never heard of any of that about a court ruling on not needing passes. Possible I mis-read Red Tape info, or that info was old and not updated. When in doubt I usually just put the pass in on my car as an insurance policy, worst case prevents a fine. Good to know though.

I also like going up Dry Lake and descending Dollar Lake Trail. If you have a mountain bike, I suggest you consider peddling up Poop-out Hill road 3.5 miles to the old trail head at the wilderness boundary. The road is closed to motor vehicles but OK for bikes. I've done it that way a couple of times. Its nice to coast back down the last 3.5 miles at the end of the day. Agreed, Vivian Creel is shortest route & most direct.