Thinking of picking either of these up but not sure which, anyone own one? feel free to post pros and cons of your pack it is hard for me to decide at the moment.

I can't comment too much about the HMG other than pure observation, however, I have had a lot of friends who own CiloGear and I have used CiloGear packs personally. In short, no sir, don't like them.

Lately, I have been ruminating a lot on what makes a pack good. My nearly 12 year old Serratus Genie, after many seasons of hard use, is finally starting to become thread bare. I've bought three different packs to replace it, returning each one because of their short comings. So, what makes the Genie so great? Simplicity.

I call it the Space Shuttle syndrome. After the space shuttle exploded it was determined that a small O ring failed. The engineers knew there was a chance the O ring would fail, but the chance was acceptably small. What they failed to consider was there were many, many O rings on the rig, each with a small chance of failure. When statisticians went back and crunched the numbers, it turns out there was a 50/50 chance of catastrophic failure due to the O ring failure alone.

Packs rarely fail by the fabric tearing. Expensive Full Dyneema/Spectra (woven or non-woven) are effectively no more durable than spectra grid rip stop. Maybe a bit lighter. Packs fail when seams, stitching, and zippers break. CiloGear packs have more seams, patches of different fabric, straps and do-dads that all have a chance of failure, and fail they do. Removable straps equals losable straps. Very little point in stripping a pack down for a summit push. How much weight is actually saved? A pound?

A few years ago, a friend and I were returning from a winter attempt on Ptarmigan Ridge on Mount Rainer. The climb involved skiing the closed HWY 410 and White River Road (24 miles round trip just to get to the summer trail head). After several days slogging on skis in heavy snow, we called it and turned tail. When we reached HWY 410, we discovered it had just been plowed. We put our skis on our packs and started walking. I could literally hear the straps snapping off of my partner's CiloGear. It was his third one in three years, they all fell apart. And he was just a weekend climber.

So, I like simple, but I also like functionality. I need a pack to carry ice tools, crampons, pickets, tent poles, sleeping pad, rope, and skis on the outside. Not all at once, but at one time or another. I want no unnecessary zippers and no extra pockets. A pack should have one large main compartment, large enough to carry my sleeping bag, tent, stove, rack, clothes, food, rock shoes, and other necessary crap. I like a top lid pocket to hold small items I need throughout the day. I have used some roll top packs without a top lid, instead have a small, externally accessed pocket. Not my cup of tea, but acceptable, and simple.

The suspension should be adequate for the job. Packs small enough (30 liters) need only a foam back pad, lightly padded shoulder straps, and a 1 1/2 " waist belt. Larger packs benefit from some type of rigid support for loads greater than 35 pounds as well as a padded waist belt.

Take a look at the Cold Cold World Chernobyl: http://www.coldcoldworldpacks.com/chernobyl.htm. Randy is very amenable to custom work. You could have the whole thing built with Dyneema grid fabric, nix the daisy chains and ski slots and have a extremely functional and durable pack that weighs not much more than the HMG or CiloGear.

I went through this last year and ended up with a Cilogear 45L worksack (over the CCW Chernobyl) based on a couple guides I know using this pack extensively. IMO, it's a mixed bag, like all packs. Generally, I happy with it.

I love the load carrying capacity with the custom fit framesheet (it is the most comfortable pack I've owned). I like the single big body with the removable top loader. I like the small ninja pocket inside the main body. I like that I can cinch it down to 22L, remove the frame sheet and top loader for long summit days. I like that it does not have a bunch of extraneous pockets and zippers. I like that I can reconfigure the strapping to carry crampons or rope or poles or my helmet outside the pack.

I don't like that's it's not durable. The fabric along the seams between the sides and bottom is taking a beating and getting threadbare. I've used tenacious tape to patch the fabric on the front-bottom in two places. The reflective strips are losing their reflectivity through use. The back of the pack, where the shoulder straps are sewn, appears to be stretching.

For background, I'm a weekend and weeklong mountaineer. This pack was specifically purchased to pursue all of the California 14ers so it needs to hold up to the demands of long, hard backcountry trips (I'm 11 mountains done with Russell, Middle Pal and Sill to complete) in all conditions. I've used it on a couple weekend backpacking trips where I am the load monster and a couple times to haul gear to and around Joshua Tree. I've beat the hell out of a Deuter Futura Pro 42 but haven't been able to kill a Gregory Whitney from 2006 in the Cascades, Mexico, or Philmont Scout Ranch.

Seems experiences are varied with Cilo. I've used my 40B extensively from Patagonia to PNW alpine miscellanea to cragging and currently have one small hole from an errant crampon point. No noted seam tearing or failures as yet. Loads have been up to 55lbs or so. I've got a few feature tweeks I'd make if I had my way but overall it does what I need it to.

Of course there are other good options out there. I'm still in the CiloGear camp though.

CCW have a pretty good rep.

Do you want to get either of these two brands for any specific reason? There are plenty of good, cheap offers from Black Diamond or Mammut. The BD speed series are just as light, durable and featured as any packs, as is the Mammut Trion series. They also have warranty services, something I know many people have had issues with from Cilogear.

If you're not a hardman I think it's definitely worth getting a pack with a beefier suspension. Comfort becomes more important than light weight when you've got the bag on your back for 4-5 days.

beean wrote:
Do you want to get either of these two brands for any specific reason? There are plenty of good, cheap offers from Black Diamond or Mammut.

I was wondering the same thing. I have not spent more than $99 on a pack since 1997 (I am a relentless bargain hunter). I really like my last two 45L alpine packs from Black Diamond (Ice Pack and Predator).

beean wrote:CCW have a pretty good rep.

Do you want to get either of these two brands for any specific reason? There are plenty of good, cheap offers from Black Diamond or Mammut. The BD speed series are just as light, durable and featured as any packs, as is the Mammut Trion series. They also have warranty services, something I know many people have had issues with from Cilogear.

If you're not a hardman I think it's definitely worth getting a pack with a beefier suspension. Comfort becomes more important than light weight when you've got the bag on your back for 4-5 days.

Im a bit of a gear whore. Ive got a few packs around this range and none stand out (including the Mammut Trion 40). Id like a fully weatherproof bag that is lightweight durable and not overloaded with unneccessary features.

I have a review of the HMG pack (with a comparison to the Cilo) on my blog, here:

http://larsonweb.com/blog/?p=296

I'm with ExcitableBoy on the Chernoble. Cold Cold World packs are tried & true. And they last forever.

I needed to get a bigger pack anyway do I am going with the HMG and the Cilogear 60L.

Best of both worlds