Hey All,

So I'm a 27 year old mechanical engineer living in New Orleans, LA and wanting to get into mountaineering. I've got very limited experience with climbing...due to obvious geographic limitations, but something about getting into the mountains has always appealed to me. Basically, I get into the closest climbing gym on occasion and have been sport climbing in Northern Alabama once many years ago. I thoroughly enjoy backpacking, camping, hiking etc.

Ultimately I would like to be able to take 2-3 trips a year to climb, to get there, the best route seems to be taking a course next year.

Currently I've narrowed it down to two similar courses, I've got vacation time to use for this so I picked the long duration offerings from each company. The longer courses seem to give the best variety to set me up with a good climbing base to build from.

First, Alpine Ascents International--13 Day Cascades Mountaineering Course.
Second, American Alpine Institute--12 Day Alpine Mountaineering and Technical Leadership 1 course.

Both of these courses seem very similar based on the itinerary, can anyone weigh in on any advantages of one over the other? Anyone with experience on one or both courses would be greatly appreciated as well! Finally, feel free to point me towards other schools, these two stood out with their long courses.

As far as dates, the Alpine ascents course is limited to August, whereas American Alpine spans the whole summer. Weather wise, which dates would be preferable for this course.

Are these courses overkill? Should I try out a summit climb to ensure I enjoy these activities? In my mind the long course seems the best bang for the buck based on information learned and amount of days you're paying for.

I'm in the very early planning stages now and just trying to make sure I'm considering everything. Thanks for the help!

My opinion would be to use your current time off and go bang out some mountains. CO 14ers, CA 14ers, AZ, there are plenty of peaks that can be had with little to no experience (not saying go unprepared), but Spend time with a pack on and just get out in the mountains before you throw yourself in a course. The course will be much more valuable with a little experience and you may come to different conclusions about what you like.

First, Alpine Ascents International--13 Day Cascades Mountaineering Course.
Second, American Alpine Institute--12 Day Alpine Mountaineering and Technical Leadership 1 course.

Both of these are reputable and very respected companies, so both classes should be good from either.

Are these courses overkill?

They would not be overkill if you wanted to learn to alpine climb and travel in glaciated terrain, such as is found in the Pacific Northwest. They would be overkill if you wanted to climb in places like Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, and most of California.

I looked into the American Alpine Institute's 12 day alpine skills/leadership class. It's part one of a three part program taught in the North Cascades, each part being 12 days. The first part focusses on basic roped team work, snow skills, glacier travel and crevasse rescue. The second part is focussed on rock climbing. IIRC, the third part is expedition planning and leadership, and includes a mini-expedition somewhere in the northwest. As Scott said, part one of the class would be a good intro to climbing Cascade peaks or any of the higher ranges where snow and glacier travel are critical. If you have the time and money the whole three part class would probably be a good general mountaineering program.

AAI also offers a 9 day Sierra alpine skills/leadership class which is an abridged version of the longer class, tailored for the Sierra. It is primarily focussed on rock climbing in an alpine environment, including anchor building, leading, and multipitch climbing, with a little bit of snow climbing skills thrown in. Since my primary interest was rock climbing and the Sierra was where I expected to spend most of my time I took that class, and it was great training. It didn't cover glacier travel or go into depth on ice climbing so if you want to climb in that terrain you'd have to learn those skills separately. If you do want to climb in relatively dry, rocky ranges like the Sierra, Colorado, the Southwest, or summer on the East Coast, something like the Sierra class might be a good intro.

A nice thing about the AAI alpine skills/leadership program is that the focus is on training vs. peak bagging. The stated intent is to teach students basic skills so that they can start climbing themselves with other nonprofessional climbers, vs. knowing just enough to climb on guided ascents with a hired professional leading and making all the decisions.

JHH60 wrote:I looked into the American Alpine Institute's 12 day alpine skills/leadership class. It's part one of a three part program taught in the North Cascades, each part being 12 days. The first part focusses on basic roped team work, snow skills, glacier travel and crevasse rescue. The second part is focussed on rock climbing. IIRC, the third part is expedition planning and leadership, and includes a mini-expedition somewhere in the northwest. As Scott said, part one of the class would be a good intro to climbing Cascade peaks or any of the higher ranges where snow and glacier travel are critical. If you have the time and money the whole three part class would probably be a good general mountaineering program.

AAI also offers a 9 day Sierra alpine skills/leadership class which is an abridged version of the longer class, tailored for the Sierra. It is primarily focussed on rock climbing in an alpine environment, including anchor building, leading, and multipitch climbing, with a little bit of snow climbing skills thrown in. Since my primary interest was rock climbing and the Sierra was where I expected to spend most of my time I took that class, and it was great training. It didn't cover glacier travel or go into depth on ice climbing so if you want to climb in that terrain you'd have to learn those skills separately. If you do want to climb in relatively dry, rocky ranges like the Sierra, Colorado, the Southwest, or summer on the East Coast, something like the Sierra class might be a good intro.

A nice thing about the AAI alpine skills/leadership program is that the focus is on training vs. peak bagging. The stated intent is to teach students basic skills so that they can start climbing themselves with other nonprofessional climbers, vs. knowing just enough to climb on guided ascents with a hired professional leading and making all the decisions.

Thanks for the input!! Would love to hear more about the class you took. It seems american alpine (why did they both go with AAI acronym names) has restructured their leadership courses. Now the alpine mountaineering is a 4 part series where the first part seems a broad introduction into all things alpine, with the beginning going over glacier/snow travel/climbing, the middle section focused on more sierra esque climbing and the end combining the two for some peak climbs.

Unfortunately they don't seem to have nearly as much information (itineraries etc.) for the sierra skills/leadership course...but it has peaked my interest.

Thanks everyone for the help so far, keep the information coming!

JollyRogers wrote: It seems american alpine (why did they both go with AAI acronym names) has restructured their leadership courses. Now the alpine mountaineering is a 4 part series where the first part seems a broad introduction into all things alpine, with the beginning going over glacier/snow travel/climbing, the middle section focused on more sierra esque climbing and the end combining the two for some peak climbs.

The similarity is intentional, Alpine Ascents was started by a disgruntled former American Alpine Institute guide. My recommendation would be to take the American Alpine Institute courses, starting in late June with the glacier travel/mountaineering course work. Take the rock climbing part later in summer. Particularly these last couple of summers, the glaciers start going out of condition starting in early July.

JollyRogers wrote:Thanks for the input!! Would love to hear more about the class you took. It seems american alpine (why did they both go with AAI acronym names) has restructured their leadership courses. Now the alpine mountaineering is a 4 part series where the first part seems a broad introduction into all things alpine, with the beginning going over glacier/snow travel/climbing, the middle section focused on more sierra esque climbing and the end combining the two for some peak climbs.

Unfortunately they don't seem to have nearly as much information (itineraries etc.) for the sierra skills/leadership course...but it has peaked my interest.

Thanks everyone for the help so far, keep the information coming!

I took the Sierra class almost ten years ago. I checked the AAI website and it does look like they've restructured the classes a bit and extended the Sierra class to be 12 days. I'm happy to tell you more about what we did in my class but in my experience the AAI people are happy to chat with you on the phone if you call their office, and they can give you more information about specific classes as they are taught today. After I did the Sierra class I got interested in alpine ice climbing and went up to Bellingham to take AAI's six day alpine ice class on Mt. Baker. I have to say that the North Cascades are spectacular and you can't go wrong doing classes there.

I am a beginner transitioning into the intermediate level, and I think my experience might be worth sharing:

I started climbing 2 years ago when my brother-in-law invited me on a guided Mt. Rainier climb. I have outdoor experience, but am not a skier and had never been above 5000'. The experience was like nothing I had done before and I became very interested in climbing. I was such an advocate that I talked a bunch of friends into joining me the following year on another guided climb of Rainier. At that point I decided that I wanted to pursue the long path to un-guided climbing. So I made regular trips to the highest peak near me (the White Mts in NH). I hired a guide to take/teach me ice climbing. I eventually signed up for the Alpine Ascents 6-day Cascades course. And of course, all the while I read everything I could on mountaineering. I also joined a climbing gym and have done some outdoor guided days where the focus was anchor building. I am currently waiting for ice season to start to begin improving my ice climbing skills.

Based on my experience as described above, I have the following advice:

- Rather than jump right into a course, try a guided climb of a glaciated peak. This most likely will mean Mt. Rainier, but there are other options out there if you want an alternative. This is a great way to see whether you really like high altitude alpinism. They do teach some basics, such as walking with a rope team, ice ax arrests, etc. Some guide companies are better than others at teaching vs the cattle-driven mentality, so do some research and you can come away with a nice intro lesson for the sport, as well as achieving your first peak.

- I recommend taking a course like you mentioned AFTER you've done the guided climb above (or gained some experience). It will make more sense because you will have had some experience and context to apply what you are learning.

- Regarding the course, I actually recommend the 1-wk rather than the 2-wk courses. I, like you, thought that by taking a longer course I'd learn more, which I'm sure is true, but it is not simply about accumulating knowledge. You have to use the knowledge. The AA 6-day course taught plenty of information, and it's hard for me to imagine another week of learning on top of that. Better to do the 6-day, then practice the skills learned in it over the next year or two, do some other easy-to-moderate mountains, and come back for the 8-day intermediate course.

- Practice practice practice. If you take a course and then don't use it because of limitations in your geographical home base, the info dies. Tie knots while you watch TV. Take a Saturday morning to build a Z-pulley in your backyard (I just built one with my bedposts as the two anchors because in NYC we don't have yards). I found that the more I already knew, the more I learned when I was with a guide (whether in my 6-day course or on a 1-day hire) because the guide can focus more on teaching you subtleties, special cases, etc, rather than the basics if you already know the basics.

- If you are trying to maximize your time/money to learn as fast as possible, consider taking a long weekend to attend any number of climbing festivals that pop up around the year. For example, there are ice festivals in Ouray CO and Conway NH that offer a wide variety of courses at a reasonable price (of course, flight and hotel can add up, though). Not only that, but you get tons of exposure to gear representatives, experienced climbers, etc. Anyway, these festivals offer a condensed learning opportunity.

Forgive me if some of this is obvious or doesn't apply (you did mention some experience rock climbing), I was just assuming little to no knowledge. As someone who is doing what you are seeking, but is maybe 2 years ahead, that is my $0.02.


Oh, and I will say my experience was that Alpine Ascents was excellent. I recommend them without reservation.

InfinityJelly thank you so so much for the excellent post! Very informative and great advice! I think the reason I was leaning towards the long course was to try to gain as much knowledge as possible in one go of it. I think your advice about the summit climb is solid and I am now leaning that way due to your post!