Prune Yosemite

by **SeanReedy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:31 am

This California gem has been the subject of many threads lately, so here is another Yosemite headline:
http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_18539564

How many would support letting a wildfire burn the structures of Yosemite Valley? That ought to maximize views and really thin out those summer hordes! :twisted:

by **Skateboards2Scrapers** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:53 am

I think they should do what they did in Zion in Yosemite, shuttle only transit yo

by **Clark_Griswold** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:03 am

Yosemite is no different from forests in other parts of California and the west. The changes to forest structure following settlement have affected the views and the forests themselves. It's a shame they're only doing it for views, but at least they are maintaining one of the things that makes a park worth viewing. One of the things.

At the Grand Canyon, there are places that views are blocked by vegetation and the PS has to cut it back to maintain them. No one seems to complain, but that is probably becuase were talking about smallish oaks and other trees on the edge of the Canyon, not well watered pines that are 100 feet tall and 30 inches in diameter at breast height. They're not supposed to cut anything in Yosemite older than 130 years. That seems old, but really isn't for the Sierra, and that age goes back to roughly 1880 and must correspond to changes in the fire regime in the area.

Should buildings burn? Are there a lot of abandoned structures in the park? I don't think the public would favor the burning of the lodge.

by **SeanReedy** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:20 am

Skateboards2Scrapers wrote:I think they should do what they did in Zion in Yosemite, shuttle only transit yo

Personally that sounds fine to me, especially in peak months, but then again I already cycle, walk, or shuttle around when I go there. I recall protestors sitting by the entrance booths for awhile before and after the current Yosemite shuttle system went into place, but you'd have to check on the exact accuracy/details.

by **SeanReedy** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:38 am

Lionel wrote:Yosemite is no different from forests in other parts of California and the west. The changes to forest structure following settlement have affected the views and the forests themselves. It's a shame they're only doing it for views, but at least they are maintaining one of the things that makes a park worth viewing. One of the things.

At the Grand Canyon, there are places that views are blocked by vegetation and the PS has to cut it back to maintain them. No one seems to complain, but that is probably becuase were talking about smallish oaks and other trees on the edge of the Canyon, not well watered pines that are 100 feet tall and 30 inches in diameter at breast height. They're not supposed to cut anything in Yosemite older than 130 years. That seems old, but really isn't for the Sierra, and that age goes back to roughly 1880 and must correspond to changes in the fire regime in the area.

Agreed and thanks for the additional info.

Should buildings burn? Are there a lot of abandoned structures in the park? I don't think the public would favor the burning of the lodge.

by **Sierra Ledge Rat** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:46 am

Skateboards2Scrapers wrote:I think they should do what they did in Zion in Yosemite, shuttle only transit yo

OMG, don't get me started.

Does anyone here remember the Yosemite General Management Plan (GMP) of 1980? The plan that was supposed to fix overcrowding and end commercialism in Yosemite? The plan in which roads were to be closed and removed, commerical buildings were to be closed and removed, and everyone (except people with confirmed campground reservations) were to park outside of the Valley and ride a shuttle into the Valley?

Commercial buildings were indeed closed. The Village gas station was closed, and replaced with a Curry Company video rental outlet.

The old fireplace room at Yosemite Lodge -- where we used to hang out on those cold winter nights -- was closed and turned into a junk souvenir store for tourists.

Roads weren't closed. Instead, several new parking lots were bull-dozed hap-hazardly out the forest to make room for more cars.

The plan was changed to turn El Cap Meadows into a giant parking lot.

Eventually the whole GMP was trashed and Yosemite is even more fucked up and commercial than it was in the 1970s when I was a Yosemite climbing bum.

by **SeanReedy** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:53 am

Funny isn't it? What are the national parks for? Different things to different people I suppose. Yosemite and its commercialization is what seems to draw many folks, including several of my relatives (in-laws) to ever visit any kind of park at all.

If I want a convenient and hassle free place to go on a great hike or trail run, feel like I am in a wild place, get away from noise and traffic, or feel solitude, national parks are near the bottom of my list of public lands to visit. The more popular the park, the lower it is usually is on my list for doing activities I like to do most.

Having said that, I have been on several hikes in Yosemite to great spots with few people, or have sometimes enjoyed cycling around the valley.

For anyone interested in some tips for withstanding the commercialization and crowds found at many national parks, I generally adhere to these principles:
1) I avoid the vistor center (although potentially informative, often it is glorified gift shop).
2) I bring my own food or eat outside the park.
3) I try to camp outside the park in other public lands (usually free).
4) Unless I am in a rare mood to deal with crowds, I try to avoid parks that have a central parking area with a large no driving zone around them. If I do visit those parks, I bring a bicycle or try to park away from the central area and do hikes that venture off into less visited areas.
5) Occassionally I accept joining the crowd of folks who don't climb or do long hikes, who are with family of varying age or ability, and/or on a tight schedule, and enjoy that many parks cater to doing quick drive bys of specific spots to take snaphots.
6) I waste time writing long posts on internet message boards instead of going to national parks.

by **DukeJH** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:11 pm

I was at Yosemite with my family for the first time since I was a kid this weekend. We stayed near June Lake and drove into the park three days staying east of Crane Flat on day 1, doing the valley (and trying to get to Mariposa) day 2 and kicking around Tolumne Meadows day 3.

By the end of day 2 I was so fed up with people I told my wife I needed a backcountry cleansing.

Perhaps the commercialization of localized areas of the park serve to focus the traffic into those localized areas so that those of us with the wherewithal (sp?) can enjoy the backcountry for what it is without the hoards of camera toting ice cream eating stroller pushing trash dropping tourists.

by **SeanReedy** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:39 pm

DukeJH wrote:Perhaps the commercialization of localized areas of the park serve to focus the traffic into those localized areas so that those of us with the wherewithal (sp?) can enjoy the backcountry for what it is without the hoards

Most definately is a major factor in that centralization of the crowds in the most developed parks. In many ways, the fact that a crowd is being drawn to some of the parks is good, and the bigger crowds are easy to avoid.

by **SeanReedy** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:39 pm

My favorite reason for cutting trees in Yosemite:

by **simonov** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:53 am

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:Commercial buildings were indeed closed. The Village gas station was closed, and replaced with a Curry Company video rental outlet.

The Park Service got rid of the gas station and market at Giant Forest, too.

Gas stations may not be pretty, but at least they are fucking useful. A lot more useful than some tacky souvenir shop.

Last time I was at Giant Forest I had a pretty tense coast back down the mountain, on fumes, because I hadn't realized there was no longer a gas station up there.

ProTip: If you must go where lots of other people are going to go (like California freeways), the easiest way to avoid most of them is by getting up and going out early. I have noticed that most people on weekends or holidays can't be bothered to roll out of bed before 10:00.

by **SeanReedy** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:11 am

simonov wrote:ProTip: If you must go where lots of other people are going to go (like California freeways), the easiest way to avoid most of them is by getting up and going out early. I have noticed that most people on weekends or holidays can't be bothered to roll out of bed before 10:00.
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Best tip yet! I've done it, but not consistently. More often, I'm stumbling back to my truck in the dark with a light (or without if I forgot). I get in trouble with my wife for that regularly. Tip: If you are married with children, your wife might not like it if you get back from a hike after dark with her kids, whether you and the kids thought it was fun or not.

by **SeanReedy** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:42 am

simonov wrote:Last time I was at Giant Forest I had a pretty tense coast back down the mountain, on fumes, because I hadn't realized there was no longer a gas station up there.

I'll sell this to the highest bidder:

Maybe someone at the NPS watched GasLand http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1558250/ and worried that gas stations in national parks would eventaully lead to this:

Video here:http://news.asiantown.net/news.aspx?id=17773

by **BobSmith** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:24 pm

Changing anything in our National Parks is a titanic struggle. A few years ago the Park Service tried to limit access by automobiles (only on certain days and certain hours) in Cades Cove and the public screamed bloody fucking murder. Going into Cades Cove is often a nightmare with bumper to bumper traffic and outrageous crowds. They tried a simple experiment to lighten the load on that small part of the park and were rewarded with the equivalent of a temper tantrum.

It would be nice to see most of the commercial shit in all of our National Parks be dismantled. Maybe some day.

by **Steve1215** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:32 am

DukeJH wrote:I told my wife I needed a backcountry cleansing.

...I think that's available in Off-Route, SP's "after hours" forum

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