If it was Zion (DH suggested this possibility), the rock can get amazing loose very quickly, and as almost no one goes in the backcountry, few slopes are pruned of loose stuff. You grab what looks like a secure sandstone ledge, and suddenly it comes off in your hand, followed by a few hundred lbs of junk. I'm amazed that Zion reports just one rockfall fatality.

This crap happens, and often there is little warning.

The one death in our outdoor club occurred when a guy stopped to put on his poncho, and a block let loose above him and crushed him. No one was up above; it was just rotten luck, with a light rain lubricating the rocks. People started shouting "rock, rock!" but he probably just heard the rustling of the nylon.

The traditional scramble route up "Indecision Peak" in Red Rock is up a horrible sand-and-talus gully that is just waiting to let loose. I've knocked a baseball-sized rock loose, and it fell down knocking free successive larger blocks, till the final meter-sized block came to rest on the edge of a cliff.

A lot of Sierra peaks are covered with such marginally stable stuff, just waiting to break loose.

As Guyzo can confirm, I like moving fast in all kinds of terrain. But I hate grovelling, preferring to "sneak" through stuff like that, hoping the mountain will remain unaware of my presence.

Sorry if I was harsh on the kids. My wife tells me I should be careful not to become an old curmudgeon.

Looks like we got 'em bracketed allright...



(I've been waiting a while for an excuse to use that image. 50 Cal in naval guns means the barrel length equals 50x the diameter, so the 16" guns on the Iowa were over 65 ft long.)

Dingus Milktoast wrote:I am a basher... in loose terrain like that I, what did Greg Child call it... I'm a groveller. I deal fairly well with the chaos of it all.

I was fascinated by Child's and Lynn Hill's opposing opinions about the chaos of mountaineering. In her book she describes her, well, terror of the alpine environment. And Child, in his book, told how Hill could dance up 5.12 free moves in Kazakhstan but when it came to descent was timid and shockingly slow.

As I have taught a few new climbers over the years... the ability to grovel in chaos is something I have observed. A lot of folks are terrified of loose terrain and never really adapt.

(I know I am not describing you brother)

No, you're describing me. I hate loose terrain.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:Its was his clueless laughter I think, that really sets folks off to making blanket judgements about him and them, me included.

Part of it, no doubt. Another huge problem was that a differently shaped rock might have hit him, where he was standing.

MoapaPk wrote:If it was Zion (DH suggested this possibility), the rock can get amazing loose very quickly, and as almost no one goes in the backcountry, few slopes are pruned of loose stuff. You grab what looks like a secure sandstone ledge, and suddenly it comes off in your hand, followed by a few hundred lbs of junk. I'm amazed that Zion reports just one rockfall fatality.

Unfortunately, I almost added DH to that list when I knocked down some good-sized blocks in a steep, loose gully in Zion he and I were going up a few years back. Needless to say, I breathed a huge sigh of relief when he pulled out of the way just in time. Scary stuff.

lisae wrote:

Dingus Milktoast wrote:I am a basher... in loose terrain like that I, what did Greg Child call it... I'm a groveller. I deal fairly well with the chaos of it all.

I was fascinated by Child's and Lynn Hill's opposing opinions about the chaos of mountaineering. In her book she describes her, well, terror of the alpine environment. And Child, in his book, told how Hill could dance up 5.12 free moves in Kazakhstan but when it came to descent was timid and shockingly slow.

As I have taught a few new climbers over the years... the ability to grovel in chaos is something I have observed. A lot of folks are terrified of loose terrain and never really adapt.

(I know I am not describing you brother)

No, you're describing me. I hate loose terrain.

I just watched this again, this time with the sound on.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of loose terrain either. I was on terrain looser than that, twice this past year. There's no where to stand, nothing to grab onto, everything's in motion. Especially when it's really sodden with moisture. Mud, Bugs and Snakes in the mix. This, at least, looks dry. Can't understand why there's so much loose stuff.

A good point about the helmet. So, they'd been climbing and took the "easy" way down?

Andinistaloco wrote:What a jackass. Her partner's standing below her on a slope that bad, and instead of watching out for his safety or hers, he whips out the camera and films her coming down.

Tool.

+1