Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum, and wanted to begin by asking for some advice regarding my search for an ultra warm down jacket. I've looked online at many different brands and style of jacket, trying to understand fill power quotations etc, and I've finally managed to draw up a shortlist of two jackets.. the Mountain Equipment Annapurna, or the Mountain Hardwear Absolute Zero. Both of these two jackets appear to be of a similar equivalent, for a similar usage from each brand

I'll obviously be making my way over to a dealer of each brand before making any kind of online purchase, to check sizes, feel etc, but I was hoping that I might be able to obtain some opinions/advice on the forum in advance to help me come to some sort of conclusion between the two.

Has anyone else faced a similar decision including these two jackets, and if so, what was your final choice, and why? Is there anything to choose from between the two brands Mountain Equipment & Mountain Hardware, or are they pretty comparative in quality etc? The Mountain Hardwear Absolute Zero is listed to have the higher fill power of the two (800 vs 675), but does this actually equate to a warmer jacket in real world usage? The Mountain Equipment website does actually state how much of the 675 fill down is crammed into the jacket (which in this case happens to be 420g), where as the Mountain Hardwear website does not indicate how much of the 800 fill down the Absolute Zero actually contains.. I'd guess this also makes a big difference to the overall warmth of the jacket?

Any help or advice you might be able to offer, whether its directly about one of the two jackets in question, or just general advice regarding the Mountain Equipment or Mountain Hardwear brands would be very much appreciated.

Thank you for reading

Russ

You don't get in to the purpose/activity you'll be using the coat for. I think that would be a big help.

Loft (thickness of the garment) determines the warmth. Fill power determines the weight and compressibility of the garment. If you are indeed looking for the ultimate down parka, don't bother with any big box brands. Look into boutique brands like Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering, PhD, and Valandre.

Totally agree with EB, and would add the brand RAB to the list of brands he provided.

You guys are supposed to be making this easier, not giving me 5 more brands to consider, lol.

On a serious note, I had actually looked at the more 'boutique brands' (PHD etc), but whilst I'd assume there is no doubt that they are indeed the cream of the crop.. unfortunately, they also come arm in arm with a boutique price too, to which I decided that I just couldn't justify at the moment.

I'm not looking for a cheap jacket, by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel that going for one of the boutique brands is just a little excessive just now.

I did actually have RAB on my list at one point, although I didn't really tend to group them along with the boutique brands.. more sitting along side Mountain Equipment, Mountain Hardwear, TNF, montane etc. The only real reason that RAB didn't make it into my final decision was due to the fact that I just happened to prefer the style of the two jackets mentioned in my OP to anything RAB has to offer at the moment.

Thank you for taking the time to reply

Russ

Feathered Friends warmest parka is not significantly more expensive than the MH Absolute Zero.

Feathered Friends, PhD, Western Mountaineering etc are great, but PhD are way expensive and Valandre hard to get (and Euro sized?).

Of the two parkas you mention, I have tried on both, and both are good brands. The Annapurna is an older style - it is actually a classic garment from ME. The MH AZ is more modern in style, though not cutting edge. The Annapurna has (I believe, still) a heavier shell fabric than the MHAZ. This is a drawback, for breathability and weight, unless you have some unusually rough treatment in mind for such a parka.

I would say the MHAZ is warmer and generally 'better' for very cold use. They would fit slightly differently, the MHAZ probably a bit bigger, so an XL in MH would be an XXL in ME. I think the MHAZ might have a better hood, but I have not looked at the latest models.

I would not put Rab in the boutique class, by any means, especially nowadays. Only their Batura and Expedition parkas are top notch, and they are expensive. The rest of their range are mid-quality, at best.

Damien Gildea wrote:I would not put Rab in the boutique class, by any means, especially nowadays. Only their Batura and Expedition parkas are top notch, and they are expensive. The rest of their range are mid-quality, at best.

Fair enough, that's kinda the part of their product line I figured he'd be looking. Has the QC fallen off that much on their newer stuff, or simply a craftsmanship issue?

Can't speak to FF, PHD, or Valandre, but I love my WM stuff. MH had treated me well, but most of that stuff was obtained at cost. Cheers

96avs01 wrote:...Has the QC fallen off that much on their newer stuff, or simply a craftsmanship issue?

I like Rab, have various Rab items, they're a good brand. They are innovative and make some great shell gear and have a long history of good down gear. I just think some of their mid and low end down jackets are overpriced and mediocre quality. They feel cheap and are quite basic design and spec for their price-point and reputation. There are often complaints about Rab stitching and zips on jackets, mainly in the UK. I'd say their reputation has suffered a little, but partly this is just unjustified nationalism after they moved production from UK to China. They still make a lot of really good products.

They also have a particular fit, relatively narrow in the shoulders, though long in the arms and legs. This is fine, but they are often too baggy around the waist and so some people simply can't wear their stuff. Their down jackets are particularly bad in this regard, not so much their climbing shell jackets though.

^^^Thanks Damien!

Just to add to what Damien mentioned, I recently purchased a Rab Primaloft belay jacket that came highly recommended. I ordered a large, which fits tightly across my shoulders and chest but is two inches too long in the arms and hem. Not made for barrel chested Irishmen, it seems. So, if anyone is interested I have a beautiful belay parka for sale:
http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthr ... ost1132796

Consider one of the jackets with hydrophobic down. All the benefits of down, with most of the benefits of synthetic. Don't know how they make it, it's probably made from baby seal tears or something. But It's good stuff, I've used 4 different kinds extensively with no downsides to report.