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Some exercises for climbing & hiking

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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby MoapaPk » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:21 pm

I'm guessing that Emmie mainly wants to get in decent shape, and elaborate exercise routines are not practical for her living situation.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby jordansahls » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:57 pm

Nothing elaborate about interval training. Just go hard as you can for around 20 to 40 seconds (running up a hill, sprinting on a track, using the stationary bike), rest for a minute, repeat for a total of 8-10 sets (it should take around 10-15 minutes). The most time efficient way to get into better cardiovascular shape, IMHO, is to do interval training around two times a week (if you haven't done them before, than start at once a week) mixed in with a standard work-out routine (like hiking on weekend, using the stair stepper, lifting, ect).
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Ze » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:32 pm

jordansahls wrote:
Ze wrote:1 minute intervals, for instance, won't yield the same improvements in conditioning.


I disagree. Its all about intensity. 1 minute intervals at a near maximal, maximal, or supramaximal intensity have been proven to be more beneficial for many physiological adaptations than longer bouts at lower intensities. I guess it all depends on what exactly you are trying to improve. If your trying to increase lactate threshold, than 4-5 minute intervals near your max are awesome. If its VO2max, than high intensity interval training is the key. anyway, both are important.



VO2max is unimportant. Increasing VO2max is an effect of other training goals. You can improve it via 1 minute intervals, or 4 or 5. Unfortunately, 1 minute intervals won't get you solid aerobic conditioning.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Ze » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:38 pm

jordansahls wrote:Nothing elaborate about interval training. Just go hard as you can for around 20 to 40 seconds (running up a hill, sprinting on a track, using the stationary bike), rest for a minute, repeat for a total of 8-10 sets (it should take around 10-15 minutes). The most time efficient way to get into better cardiovascular shape, IMHO, is to do interval training around two times a week (if you haven't done them before, than start at once a week) mixed in with a standard work-out routine (like hiking on weekend, using the stair stepper, lifting, ect).



No. Please stop giving bad advice. Listen, improving VO2max is not that important. Improving your ability to maintain a high % of your VO2max for a set period of time is.

40 second intervals will not give you the conditioning (yeah lactate threshold and that) needed to sustain better intensities over longer periods of time. 4-5 minute intervals, while still very short, will do a lot more for that. And they will improve your VO2 max sufficiently.

Sure they have some use for improved anaerobic production...but that's hardly relevant. Anyways if you think endurance athletes do 30 second intervals as their main training mode, they don't.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby jordansahls » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:54 pm

First off, what exactly do you mean by aerobic conditioning? are you refering to the bodys ability to produce energy aerobiacally? And secondly, you say "Improving VO2max is not that important, Improving your ability to maintain a high % of your VO2max for a set period of time is". Correct me if I'm misinterpreting, but that sounds like lactate threshold.

A study done in 2008 used a group of healthy men and women (mean age around 24 years old) who, outside of activities of daily living, did not take part in any exercise training program (i.e. ≤ 2 sessions per week and ≤ 30 min per session, for at least 1 year prior to the study).

The study found that low volume sprint interval training elicited similar adaptations to traditional endurance training. They found similar increases in muscle oxidative capacity after 6 weeks of SIT or endurance training despite large differences in training volume. So it seems that you can get aerobic conditioning from interval training.

but I think I get what you'r saying (correct me if I'm wrong). Which was the original point I was trying (and failing) to make in my original reply which is intensity is the key, duration being a close second (this is where we disagree I think). Your original post only said this, "1 minute intervals, for instance, won't yield the same improvements in conditioning". I believe that, if done at the proper intensity, they can, and will yield similar improvments (get on pubmed and look it up).

Still, I do agree that lactate threshold training is probably a better way to go. I tend to get stuck in the little details, which can be problematic.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Ze » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:42 am

One problem is you can't use people who don't exercise, then exercise for a few weeks as a good data set. They'll always have adaptations. You can have quick adaptations using many different methods with the untrained. VO2max reaches high levels then plateaus after several weeks of intervals, whereas more endurance markers take much longer to plateau.

Basicallly, you're right I'm arguing about duration. Specifically, that it take ~2-3 min to use up (temporarily) your anaerobic reserves and be fully using your aerobic engine. And you want to get to that point for the proper stimulus.

Anyways, I think this is a great page with a much better explanation than I could give.

Conclusions So Far

For a period of intermittant exercise that approximates a max VO2 workload to overload the cardiovascular system effectively, it needs to be of at least 2 minutes duration due to 1) lag time in the cardiovascular response and 2) the oxygen buffering effect of myoglobin


And I apologize for hijacking the thread, Emmie. In general, I'd say do an exercise that you enjoy, in a way that won't injure yourself, and at whatever intensity / duration you feel comfortable with and maybe you could try to progress from.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby emmieuk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:32 am

Thanks everyone for your advice!

I am hammering the stairs, chair squats and lunges

I really could do with good advice on running but a bit confused with the mini debate!

Zumba by the way is one of the most fun and hardest work outs I ever did!! an hour of non stop high engery dancing, boxing moves and aerobics was a killer! Dont mock the old ladies lol
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby MoapaPk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:03 pm

OK, I think I got it. She should do stairs, but not if she's lactating, because her VO2s might bounce around too much, which could hurt.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby emmieuk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:19 pm

nah they are only tiny :)
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Princess Buttercup » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:59 pm

Hi, Emmie!

One question I always ask my patients is: are there any particular activities you enjoy doing? I mean, running is great for increasing aerobic capacity, but if you don't like doing it, you probably won't. Any and all activities/exercises can be done for intervals (think of the good, old fashioned 3 sets of 10 for weight training), which will indeed help tremendously (and usually the most rapidly).

For example, I hate running just for the sake of running. I did some as I was training for the Sierra Challenge last year, and what it taught me is that I really suck at running uphill. I found I could stride it out at a walk faster than the supremely pitiful jog I was attempting, and it actually made the work more enjoyable. So I would power stride uphill, pushing harder on steeper sections of the trail (wherever I happened to be), then allowing "active rest" of slower but still long strides where it would level out. Then, on the way down, I would run/jog as I felt safe, avoiding rocks, big step-offs, tree roots, etc.

If you are training to become a high-level athlete, then a more structured program of time limits and such would be greatly beneficial. But if you are simply looking to mix up your routine a bit (which, physiologically, stimulates the body to make the changes you want/need; doing the same program over and over will initially cause changes and then a plateau), then give the intervals a try. If running doesn't seem to float your boat, try increasing the intensity of your walking speed/incline.

As for strength training, body weight exercises (situps, pushups, squats, lunges, heel raises, pullups, etc) can be wonderful. Added bonus of not having to have a ton of extra equipment or gym membership.

If you'd like specifics, by all means let me know.

Good luck, have fun!

-L
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby emmieuk » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:41 am

Thanks for all your advice guys
I am running three to 4 times a week now, running up stairs and down again (much to the annoyance of my neighbours) and doing lots of lunges and cant notice a slight difference in how fit i feel...just need some wobble to shift now :)
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby bird » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:56 pm

emmieuk wrote:Thanks for all your advice guys
and cant notice a slight difference in how fit i feel.

This is important. If you want to make gains, you have to be able to measure them. I suggest you set a course and time yourself. 5K run would work, or 10 sets of stairs or 100 lunges. Do it now as fast as you can. Then do your workouts and try again in two weeks or so. Try to keep other variables the same when you test (ie: Don't eat a huge meal before one time, but not the other). Keep a log of your workouts, how much, how fast, etc.
Also, you should consider adding in "air squats" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOdwETDQXCw and push ups, and pullups if there is a park nearby with some playground equipment...
Don't worry about the comments about VO2 and other stuff. Just work hard, mix it up, and keep track of what you do and try to make it a little harder each week or so.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby winemanvan » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:25 pm

Most of the dancers I know smoke. Do you smoke? If so, quitting will help your cardiovascular immensely. For me, running, and bicycling are the best methods for staying in good mountain shape while living in the city. Stretch before you run and keep doing the Zumba and ride that bike!
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