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Some exercises for climbing & hiking

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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby ExcitableBoy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:57 pm

Ze wrote:The key to any of these is that you need to be able to do high intensity for at least 4-5 minutes non-stop...so you would have to find enough stairs to do that (like a tall building stairwell).

1 minute intervals, for instance, won't yield the same improvements in conditioning.


Hi Ze,

I love your blog, so many interesting topics discussed. I don't understand your assertion that high intensitiy intervals be done in 4-5 minute increments. What percentage of maximum aerobic heart rate should one aim for?

I derive the core ideas of training from Mark Twight's book 'Extreme Alpinism, Climbing High, Fast, and Light" published sometime in the last century. Are there newer ideas folks are applying to alpine climbing?

I currently do two types of high intensity work - intervals and lactate threshold training.

For intervals I run as hard as I can up a steep, consistent grade one mile long. I run for 90 secs followed by 3 1/2 minutes active recovery (jogging back down the hill). Within 60 seconds I go from aerobic to anaerobic - after 90 seconds my vision literally goes red then black and I begin seeing stars. I can't imagine sustaining this level for 4 minutes. After six sets including a warm up and cool down jog I am pretty wrecked.

For lactate threshold training I run uphill for 3,800 ft in 4 miles keeping my heart rate just barely in the aerobic zone. This takes 45 minutes.

It sounds like you are advocating a level of intensity higher than lacate threshold training but lower than completely anaerobic intervals. Can you expound upon this?

TIA,

EB
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby ExcitableBoy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:02 pm

winemanvan wrote:Most of the dancers I know smoke. Do you smoke? If so, quitting will help your cardiovascular immensely.


I've been climbing with one of my partners for 15 years. When we were planning a big trip or hard route I would train like crazy and he would stop smoking. That was all he needed to do.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Ze » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:35 pm

ExcitableBoy wrote:I love your blog, so many interesting topics discussed. I don't understand your assertion that high intensitiy intervals be done in 4-5 minute increments. What percentage of maximum aerobic heart rate should one aim for?

I derive the core ideas of training from Mark Twight's book 'Extreme Alpinism, Climbing High, Fast, and Light" published sometime in the last century. Are there newer ideas folks are applying to alpine climbing?

I currently do two types of high intensity work - intervals and lactate threshold training.

For intervals I run as hard as I can up a steep, consistent grade one mile long. I run for 90 secs followed by 3 1/2 minutes active recovery (jogging back down the hill). Within 60 seconds I go from aerobic to anaerobic - after 90 seconds my vision literally goes red then black and I begin seeing stars. I can't imagine sustaining this level for 4 minutes. After six sets including a warm up and cool down jog I am pretty wrecked.

For lactate threshold training I run uphill for 3,800 ft in 4 miles keeping my heart rate just barely in the aerobic zone. This takes 45 minutes.

It sounds like you are advocating a level of intensity higher than lacate threshold training but lower than completely anaerobic intervals. Can you expound upon this?

TIA,

EB


Thanks EB. First, I'm by no means an expert, but I just have read a decent amount of exercise physiology...I'm not into exercise from just hiking/climbing, so I've learned basic principles (like you mention) and know they apply generally well to all endurance sports. So I don't read Mark Twight, just hear about him on this forum, but to be honest he probably isn't going to enlighten me specifically on endurance training.


This link has a good description of intervals - and go back to the main menu for a thorough overview of exercise physiology.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080215004250/home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm


I wasn't making the point that 5 min intervals are the best, I was comparing them to 1 min intervals and saying they will have a better effect on endurance. But you are right longer durations and lower intensities are also very useful (probably moreso). Personally I also mix it up and do several varieties...but time constraints may limit people to how long they want to workout and also how long they want to endure pain. I'll do 3 x 6 min intervals averaging 97% max HR or 20 min steady at ~93%. This gives me "sufficient" high endurance but I wouldn't say its optimal. Longer, less intense runs would help as well...but it's a case of diminishing returns to me and I'm not competing.

I do 1 min intervals as well, I've done 1 hr of 1 min off / on intervals, and that sure is a hell of a way to deplete glycogen. But my endurance conditioning decreases if I only do these. Plus, the benefit of anaerobic intervals plateaus after a few weeks - so its something to mix in once in a while, or "top off" at the end of a regimen, but no need to do it all the time.

5 min intervals vs 1 min: At the end of 1 min, heartrate has gotten pretty high, but only for the last 20% has the heart & muscles been exposed to sufficent stimulus for aerobic adaptation. It's just simply not that much aerobic conditioning. I'm sort of rambling so I'll stop now.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby blazin » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:39 pm

sjarelkwint wrote:stairs!


This seems like a good way to get started. :twisted:
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby jordansahls » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:32 pm

blazin wrote:
sjarelkwint wrote:stairs!


This seems like a good way to get started. :twisted:



If you love to suffer, than there's nothing better. I have done a handful of stair races in Seattle and they are brutal. Stair racers are a stange breed of folk, Case in point, at a recent race for the American Lung Association I talked to a women who tore her lung while racing up the Empire State Building last year. You have to be a masochist. Cooincidentally, one of my good friend is in New York today getting ready for the race.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Ze » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:17 pm

blazin wrote:
sjarelkwint wrote:stairs!


This seems like a good way to get started. :twisted:


i'm scared of those women!

Top runners shun the Stairmaster for its unrealistic stride. Elliptical machines do not translate, either. Nothing simulates the demands of a staircase like a staircase; the taller the better.



I hate the NY times health section...have they ever heard of a stairclimber?
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Andes6000 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:27 pm

Strength & Stamina: (based on what works for me)

Strength/Squats: Start with the bar only, gradually add weight trying to find the point where you can barely do 1 set of 20 repetitions before burn out. Breathing and proper technique are key. Start off once a week until you can do this 2-3 times a week, adding 5 - 10 pounds each week. This routine has helped me add some quality mass. I rest 1 week every 5 weeks.

Stamina:

Running: Living in the Andes I'm lucky to have a 4,500 meter mountain in my back yard but I still do much of my resistance training indoors because in the long run the impact on knees/ankles etc. far outweighs the benefits imo. So running twice a week prepares tendons and joints for the rigors of climbing and descending. A 10 - 15 minute walk followed by stretching is the ideal start followed by very easy running until a pace is found that can be maintained for at least 30 min. Never run on cement or asphalt. A field, ditch, trail is much better. Sand is good as long as it is firm. Running on a treadmill at 5-10 degrees has also yielded good results on the mountain. Always cool down by walking 5 - 10 min.

Cycling: Stationary bike. Boring, but little can interrupt the target heart rate which you are trying to maintain. The Karvonen formula can be used to determine this. I warm up by walking on a treadmill for 10 min. followed by stretching. I then use the manual setting on the stationary bike, gradually increasing the resistance level until I am at my target heart rate of about 160 maintaining for 45 min. I'll do this twice a week on average.

I keep the gym training limited to mostly leg strengthening. Big muscles consume more oxygen so you don't have to look like the Hulk to climb a mountain. Chin ups, push ups, and swimming are excellent upper body exercises for climbing. Plenty of rest and a balanced natural diet are just as important as training. The body needs more rest if ankles, knees, or back feel stiff or sore even after warming up. Never work through pain, huge myth.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby jonmeek16 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:27 pm

You've got to try Insanity or P90X. I've done both programs and Insanity will help you with cardiovascular strenght like none other! Also, it'll get your legs super strong! Hit me up if you have any questions about it!

Cheers~
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby Big Benn » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:29 pm

MoapaPk wrote:I'm guessing that Emmie mainly wants to get in decent shape, and elaborate exercise routines are not practical for her living situation.

To me that sounds like very sensible advice. I don't think you are setting out to climb Everest are you emmie?

I work on the basis that the best training for hill walking is to walk up hills. So, most days I go out from home and spend two hours walking up and down short steep slopes in a local woodland. Highest single section gives no more than 80 - 90 feet of vertical ascent. But it can add up to 1500 feet of ascent some days if I push it.

And because of a damn bug I've been getting for 30 years, (made worse by getting wet from sweat and a cold wind on my back, regardless of how many layers I wear), I've started doing step ups at home some days.

A small blue plastic stool around 11 inches high. At one end of my study. Loud rock music, Tina Turner "Simply the Best" and Bobby Fuller Four, "I Fought the law" blasting at me from the other end of the study work best! Did 1100 step ups today, that's 1,000 feet of ascent. Drenched with sweat and tired at the end. But no cold wind on my back, so bug stays at a low level.

And, above all, it helps keep my 260Ib fat ass able to wander up small Welsh mountains, go snowshoeing when we get snow etc etc. And gets me an amazingly clean bill of health every year when I get my medical exam.

Did over 265,000 feet of vertical ascent last year, (and over 1600 miles of walking), with my programme of very simple training and my visits to the Welsh mountains. Not too bad for an Ugly Fat Bastard!

But it's just simple exercising. Can be fitted in at almost any time of the day. Especially the step ups. Suit a busy girl like emmie I reckon.
Posting photos of curvy Bavarian Serving Wenches wearing low cut dirndls since time began.
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Re: Some exercises for climbing & hiking

Postby mvs » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:45 pm

Hey Bryan Mr. Welsh Mountains, did you ever read a book called "One Green Bottle?" I just re-read it this weekend. Amazing story about a working class girl from Liverpool who takes to rock climbing, sometime in the 1950s. I want to go climbing there just on account of the great descriptions of the place. Anyway, cheers, keep the cold wind off it!
--MIchael
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