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Postby Buz Groshong » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:53 pm

twoshuzz wrote:First, thank you to the SP elves for listening to/taking into consideration the voice of your members. To me, it shows an elevated level of care for the community and its members.

Chief is back with his privileges restored at the request of many, however, it is my understanding that it has come at great cost. I hope the rumblings are not true and that Aaron has not stepped down from his administrative duties. If they are indeed true, then I cannot help but equate this most recent incident as the final straw for Aaron. If this does prove to be the case, then I extend my deepest apologies to Aaron as someone who may have been a contributor.

From time to time we see harsh words and feelings directed towards the site admin (elves) for certain actions or the lack thereof. Often, we fail to realize/understand the difficulties of their position(s) and the issues they must weigh and balance in performing their given duties. It is easy for us members to mimic judge, jury and warden as it is of little to no consequence. For those who are charged with those duties, their actions are very real. It seems that we do indeed dismiss their degree of difficulty and take their jobs for granted, such as when we push for the banning of some and the reinstatement of others. This is not to say that we as ordinary members should abandon our efforts in what we feel would help imrove SP and it's environment, rather, a little consideration given to those who make the ultimate decisions and a little appreciation for the difficulties they face is in due order.

Aaron, my sincere hopes in that you reconsider your position.


+1 (well said)
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Postby butitsadryheat » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:04 pm

Aaron Johnson wrote:
Since when is this allowed?


Since I allowed it. I had a member ask that it be relocated. I responded no, that it was extremely important for this matter to be and remain visible. They disagreed but respected my decision.


As do I. Thanks for the reply Aaron.
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Postby lcarreau » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:16 pm

(+1) for the way this thing was handled.

It's not fun being dragged down into the toilet, unless you're the Tidy Bowl Man.

:wink:
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Postby rhyang » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:26 pm

phxphotog wrote:
butitsadryheat wrote:YouTube links that are completely out of line are frequently posted by one, while attacks and insults are made by another, in public forums no less (and one I'm thinking of in particular was when he said "FUCK YOU, and I mean that" in the California forum). He was not banned from the forums like anyone else would've been, and after the fact, the posts were actually removed by one of the elves. The whole situation came about after his hypocrisy on one view was pointed out by another member, and I agreed. He has since had a chub for me and has made many insults and personal attacks in the main forums (albeit without profanity, but personal nonetheless). He seems to think he is better than those who don't 'climb,' and makes no bones about it, to the point where he implied I had no right to post in certain forums outside of PnP. He has claimed his kids were 'attacked' on this site, but was unable or unwilling to show the elf where said attacks were made. He complains about his identity being posted, but posted photos of himself just a couple of weeks ago. It is funny that he is willing to dish it, but has such thin skin when it comes to his side of the table.


Shhhh! Don't point out the hypocrisy.


Easiest way to deal with windbags on the internet is to just ignore them :)
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Postby Guyzo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:34 pm

Day Hiker wrote:
Guyzo wrote:I can't understand why folks wont use real name.


I'm not against you guys or the main content of your post . . .

But since when are "Guyzo" and "The Chief" real names? :D

Regardless of that, some people, like myself, just don't like having that bit of personal information on display. It's not about hiding a true identity, in my case, where I have plenty of photos of myself and my personal activities posted on my profile page. And hopefully anyone viewing enough of that content, and reading enough of my posts, can get a reasonable feel that this content is genuine, and not just someone pretending to be a guy from Henderson (for whatever reason).

So I have personal comfort with posting my photos, my age, and my home city. And I don't feel comfortable with posting my name, phone number, or address. It's personal choice, and that's it. But you guys can look at the photos on my (and my son's) profile, and you can read my thoughts in my forum posts, and you can know me better than what a name can give you.



My friends all call me "Guyzo" because my 4 yr old started calling me that 18 years ago.

My real name is on my profile page.

I figgure this is a site for CLIMBERS to use to post stuff about climbing, how are you going to post stuff about climbs you have knowledge of and try to keep your real name hidden?

I don't say/or write anything that I would not say to your face.

People with something to hide are not being honest.... just my .02

:wink:
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Postby lcarreau » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:45 pm

Time to put this thread to rest:



"On soft grey mornings widows cry -

The wise men share a joke;

I run to grasp divining signs,

To satisfy the hoax.

The yellow jester does not play,

But gently pulls the strings -

And smiles as the puppets dance,

In the Court of the Crimson King ..."



(King Crimson - final verse from The Court of The Crimson King - 1969)
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Postby mstender » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:25 pm

lcarreau wrote:Time to put this thread to rest:



"On soft grey mornings widows cry -

The wise men share a joke;

I run to grasp divining signs,

To satisfy the hoax.

The yellow jester does not play,

But gently pulls the strings -

And smiles as the puppets dance,

In the Court of the Crimson King ..."



(King Crimson - final verse from The Court of The Crimson King - 1969)


AMEN!
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Postby MarthaP » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:10 pm

I was an Elf/Admin on another website for some time, so I know the hell these folks go through. I've certainly given them enough trash to deal with but hope I've apologized adequately for it.

Whatever is going on behind the scenes, I think at least a simple appreciation for the time invested and garbage they put up with is warranted. It's like walking a tightrope....

....or I guess those are called slacklines now. :wink:
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Postby MarthaP » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:26 pm

Geez, DMT, I'd forgotten all about that - see where charm and flattery will get ya? :lol: It's all water under the bridge now, anyway. And I think I've pretty well supressed all the crappy memories of that "other" site.

Besides, the people we can claim as real friends are the ones who don't crawl away when the ground starts to shake. Even without meeting someone it's easy to tell they've the heart and soul to stick with it, just like the folks you want covering your back or belaying you or simul-climbing a steep col. I'll tell ya, you and many others from this site are keepers! 8)
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Postby Guyzo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:00 pm

Dingus, early nov, a-hills..... I am down. 8)

Going to the Owens Gorge this weekend. to bad oct is shot for you.

Turning my car around in the sand was nothing compared to the "trick" I did to the motor later that day. :wink:

And MarthaP ..... I think its now called "Hi-Lining" by the young ones. :wink:

I don't envy the elf’s’ job. ( or is it elves?)
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Postby Day Hiker » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:23 pm

Guyzo wrote:I don't envy the elf’s’ job. ( or is it elves?)


Since you asked:

Singular: elf
Singular possessive: elf's
Plural: elves
Plural possessive: elves'

(An "s" does not get added to possessive forms of words that already end in "s." Just an apostrophe is added.)
Last edited by Day Hiker on Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Chief » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:21 am

"The Chief" isn't a real name?

You best contact the U.S. Navy and inform them about that. They seem to have a different opinion and have done so for well over 110 years.

BTW, it was Officially bestowed onto me, Sept 16, 1990 by the President of the United States.

"Chief Petty Officer Creed

During the course of this day you have been caused to suffer indignities, to experience humiliation. This you have accomplished with rare good grace and, therefore, I now believe it fitting to explain to you why this was done. There was no intent, and no desire, to demean you nor to insult you. Pointless as it may have seemed to you, there was a time-honored and valid reason behind every single deed, every single barb. By experience, by performance and by testing, you have been this day advanced to Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy-and only in the United States Navy does E-7 carry unique responsibilities no other armed force throughout the world carries, nor which grants privileges to it's enlisted personnel comparable to the privileges and responsibilities you are now bound to observe and are expected to fulfill.

Your entire way of life has now been changed. More will be expected of you; more will be demanded of you. Not because you are an E-7, but because you are now a Chief Petty Officer. You have not merely been promoted one pay grade. You have joined an exclusive fraternity - and, as in all fraternities, you have a responsibility to your brothers - even as they have a responsibility to you. Always bear in mind that no other armed force has rate or rank equivalent to that of the United States Navy. Granted, that all armed forces have two classes of service: enlisted and commissioned; however, the United States Navy has the distinction of having four, i.e. Enlisted, Bureau appointed CPO, Bureau appointed Warrant and Commissioned. This is why you can maintain with pride your feeling of superiority once you have attained the position of E-7 on the United States Navy.

These privileges, these responsibilities do not appear in print. They have no official standing. They cannot be referred to by name, number or file. They exist because for over 200 years the Chiefs before you have freely accepted responsibility beyond call of printed assignment and have, by their actions and performance, commanded the respect of their seniors as well as their juniors. It is now required that you be a fountain of wisdom, the ambassador of good will, the authority in personnel relations as well as technical application. "Ask the Chief" is a household phrase, both in and out of the Navy.

You are now "THE CHIEF"! So this, then, is why you were caused to experience these things. You were subjected to humiliation to prove to you that humility is good, a great, a necessary attribute which cannot mar you - in fact, it strengthens you - and, in your future as a Chief Petty Officer, you will be caused to suffer indignities, to experience humiliation far beyond those imposed upon you today. Bear them with the dignity, and with the same good grace, which you bore them today! It is our intention to prove these facts to you. It is our intention that you will never forget this day. It is our intention to test you, to try you, and to accept you. Your performance today has assured us that you will wear your hat with aplomb, as did your brothers in arms before you. We take a deep, sincere pleasure in clasping your hand, and accepting you as a Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy."
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Postby MarthaP » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:31 am

Hey, Chief,

Welcome back. :D
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