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Starting in the gym

Tips, tricks, workouts, injury advice.
 

Re: Starting in the gym

Postby fatdad » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:48 pm

Thanks for the reply CClaude. The exercises you pointed out were the ones I was thinking they would be. I had my r. knee rebuilt twice and I remember see all the rotator cuff patients performing those exercises during therapy.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby Ze » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:37 am

Good stuff. The reason I mentioned external rotation only is that most exercises involving major muscles involve internal rotation.

People tend to think that pec major and latissimus dorsi balance each other out...actually, they both internally rotate the shoulder.


Internal Rotators:

Pec major
Anterior deltoid
Lats
Teres major
Subscapularis (rotator cuff)

External Rotators:

Posterior deltoid
Infraspinatus (rotator cuff)
Teres minor (rotator cuff)

Probably forgetting some...but anyways when most people work out, they tend to develop the first group more than the second.

A decent measure of muscle balance is to relax your arms to your sides, and look where your elbow "pits" point toward. If they point inwards instead of directly forward, your shoulders are internally rotated.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby bird » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:02 pm

Squats
Deadlifts
Overhead press
Bench Press
Pullups
Sit ups
Kettlebell/dumbell swings
Pushups
are a good start.

BTW, the burpee pullup is not a "back" exercise, it's conditioning movement.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby ExcitableBoy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:59 pm

sjarelkwint wrote:Want to add muscles to shoulders and back, make my knees stronger and do some exercises to gain lungvolume ... (rowing?)

To improve lung capacity and effeciency you will want to do cardio - running, biking, rowing, swimming. You will want to do long slow distance as well as tempo and interval workouts.

In terms of strength I think Bird had it right on. I would concentrate on body weight exercises adding weight as they become too easy. Pull ups, dips, push ups, hanging leg lifts, planks, wall sits, ball crunches etc. Not only are do these requre very little equipment and can be done nearly anywhere, these exercises recruit more muscles than lifting barbells or dumbells and train neural pathways. You gain strength will little bulk. Additional exercises with dumb bells should be incorporated to work the antogonistic muscles so you do not develop a muscle inbalance. One legged, bending squats, dumbell bench press on an exercise ball, bent over dumbell rows (don't lean over a bench), roll ups will help achieve this.

Of course the best training for climbing is climbing, even if it is in an indoor gym.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby CClaude » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:54 pm

As long as you are working endurance reasonably hard (including 40+min of cardiovascular training), I really wouldn't worry about adding bulk while strength training (unless you are just slamming back just a ton of food). For 15+ years now I've done pullups with 50lbs and 100lbs tied around my waist (actually, its sets of 50lbs and sets of 100lbs) and I am 149lbs dripping wet (at 5'11"). If you are working endurance it has a large catabolic tendency.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby Ze » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:14 pm

ExcitableBoy wrote: Not only are do these requre very little equipment and can be done nearly anywhere, these exercises recruit more muscles than lifting barbells or dumbells and train neural pathways. You gain strength will little bulk. Additional exercises with dumb bells should be incorporated to work the antogonistic muscles so you do not develop a muscle inbalance.



lower resistance / higher reps combined with not being in caloric surplus will prevent bulk gain...its not about bodyweight vs dumbell
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby bird » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:38 pm

Gaining bulk takes work. Don't worry about it.
Heavy weights in sets of 1 to 5 reps produce maximum strength gains with minimal bulk (you have to eat a lot).
Slightly less weight in the 8-12 rep schemes will produce the most bulk, with smaller strength gains (regular sets of this should be avoided by climbers unless you want to get bigger, again, eat a lot if you do)
lighter weights in the 15-20 rep range will produce strength endurance gains (the ability to lift lighter weights repeatedly) and minimal bulk. You virtually can't bulk up in this rep scheme.
If you focus on high intensity with a lot of variation, you won't have to worry about getting big...it's 95% diet.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby Stolzel » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:51 am

fatdad wrote:
AlpineAffinity wrote:Burpees are good but this guy's workout is crap. Can't be using upward momentum on the pullups!


Well, he certainly is cheating himself out of a better workout. His arms are at almost a ninety degree angle before he even starts pulling up. By far the hardest part of a pullup is bending on arms from a dead hang.

Don't do too many pullups though or you'll find yourself like me, 47 and starting to develop shoulder problems. Though that was probably from a hangboard more than the pullups.


Just my two cents, but I think that suggesting that burpee pull-ups are any less valid a movement than true pull-ups misses the point of the workout. Burpee pull-ups aren't a replacement for true pull-ups; the exercise is an amalgamation of movements meant to be incorporated into metabolic conditioning(met-con)/light strength workouts. Also, I wouldn't disregard the amount of work your upper body does in getting you off the ground (or out of the burpee) - this push-up/pop-up will light you up, tire you out, and make you wish that you were doing dead-hang pull-ups.

From what I can tell, a lot of what is being talked about here can be found in Crossfit training. Check out http://www.crossfit.com and http://www.crossfitfootball.com - I think both sites would have workouts that you would find useful. The biggest criticism of Crossfit is that the workouts are too intense. If you find that to be the case, you can always modify the movements and/or the time restrictions.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby fatdad » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:40 pm

CClaude wrote:For 15+ years now I've done pullups with 50lbs and 100lbs tied around my waist (actually, its sets of 50lbs and sets of 100lbs) and I am 149lbs dripping wet (at 5'11").


Two points:

One, CClaude, I hate you (just kidding). That's impressive. Although I used to be able to do 50 pullups at a time, and even one arms, I don't think I could have hauled a 100 lbs. of extra weight.

Two, Stotzel (sp?), I agree that the burpee pullup combo looks tough. I certainly couldn't do what the guy in the workout is doing. My only point was that he wasn't getting full value from the pullup portion alone. But if your goal is to get a nice cardio workout, that would certainly fit the bill.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby ksolem » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:23 pm

A variation on the external shoulder rotation.

When doing the exercise as CClaude describes, with a band, pay attention to the other arm too. It can be externally rotated (palm of the hand forward.) As you do the exercise draw the shoulder blades together and down pulling the back together and opening the chest.

Also Ze's point re the elbow pits is spot on. But when I see this in a client I usually try to get them to pay attenion to their hands instead because it's easier for them to see when they are walking. Someone who walks with the back of their hands facing ahead, palms to the back, is internally rotated in the shoulders. Get them walking with the thumbs ahead and they can unwind their body and open the chest.

For climbers, stand and reach up with your hand in position to grab a hold. Now lower your arm to your side without changing the rotation of your shoulder. Your palm will be facing back, your shoulder internally rotated. Turn your palms to face your sides. Draw your shoulder blades together and down on your back, open your chest and unwind your spine and neck into a nice tall posture. Feels good, eh?
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby The Chief » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:34 pm

Climbing Specific PU's. Makes a big difference for me and has over the years. I reinforce my door jams so I can do Finger Specific PU's using the Jam itself. Each time I walk by I do a SLOOOOOOOOOW Five. Up slowly, hold for five seconds at the tops stroke and then down slowly.

In the Winter, these are the norm. Same technique as above except I increase the set to Ten....
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby CClaude » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:51 pm

ksolem wrote:A variation on the external shoulder rotation.

When doing the exercise as CClaude describes, with a band, pay attention to the other arm too. It can be externally rotated (palm of the hand forward.) As you do the exercise draw the shoulder blades together and down pulling the back together and opening the chest.

Also Ze's point re the elbow pits is spot on. But when I see this in a client I usually try to get them to pay attenion to their hands instead because it's easier for them to see when they are walking. Someone who walks with the back of their hands facing ahead, palms to the back, is internally rotated in the shoulders. Get them walking with the thumbs ahead and they can unwind their body and open the chest.

For climbers, stand and reach up with your hand in position to grab a hold. Now lower your arm to your side without changing the rotation of your shoulder. Your palm will be facing back, your shoulder internally rotated. Turn your palms to face your sides. Draw your shoulder blades together and down on your back, open your chest and unwind your spine and neck into a nice tall posture. Feels good, eh?


You make good points. The "typical" climbing "ape" position, with hunched over shoulders, is a strong indication that you are seriously out of balance.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby ksolem » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:22 pm

In addition to all the sport specific stuff and the climbing itself, if rock and ice climbers would add a few things to their routine most shoulder problems would be avoided.

Daily rotator cuff internal / external rotations as described above. I do 3 sets of 30 each way first thing every AM. If in external rotation the elbow is moving away from the body you are using too much resistance. DO NOT lift the shoulder towards the ear, rather concentrate on supporting the movement from the back pulling the shoulders down and back.

Push ups. De stabilize them too: feet up on the big ball, hands on a balance board or in cords, one leg extended in the air, etc.

Scapular push ups. This is a tricky very small movement. In plank, but on the elbows with arms bent, hands in relaxed fists thumbs up (elbows neutral.) Drop the breastbone toward the floor then press it up and away. All of the movement is in the shoulders, the rest of the body is still and straight.

Plank and side plank (on elbow at first, straight arm later.)

Chief I'd have to sit down on the floor to grab those tools at arms length and do the pull ups in a L-sit position.
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby The Chief » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:40 pm

ksolem wrote:Chief I'd have to sit down on the floor to grab those tools at arms length and do the pull ups in a L-sit position.

Kris...

I am pretty much on my knees on the start and then rotate into the L-Pos.

Good stuff!

How are doing these days BTW?????
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Re: Starting in the gym

Postby ksolem » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:52 pm

HI Rick, Yeah I'm doing well thanks. I'll drop you an email later. Gotta run right now...
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