Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Strength training for maintenance

Tips, tricks, workouts, injury advice.
 

Strength training for maintenance

Postby kheegster » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:19 pm

I want to do more cardio training in order to shed a few pounds, but I'm wary of neglecting my resistance training and losing muscle mass and/or strength. What would you suggest is the minimum volume of resistance training for avoiding this?
User Avatar
kheegster

 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:29 pm
Location: Princeton, New Jersey
Thanked: 6 times in 2 posts

Postby ExcitableBoy » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:44 pm

Lifting weights for an hour twice a week oughta do you.
User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Thanked: 424 times in 308 posts

Postby CClaude » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:56 pm

depending on what you are trying to do. Maintain or improve. Check out Eric Horst's book on "Training for Climbing". Even though I think Eric Horst is a little too bit self-promoting (and the type gives me the wylies) and really don't like his "How to Climb 5.12" series, but he actually gives pretty good advce IMHO for individuals at various levels of climbing. Its structured mainly towards the rock climbier. If you want information on more alpine climbing check out Clyde Sole's book on "Training for Climbing" which I find to give pretty good advise all around.
User Avatar
CClaude

 
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:37 am
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona, United States
Thanked: 67 times in 40 posts

Postby outofstep80 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:16 pm

Hey KG. Not to beat a dead horse but crossfit has some good workouts that combine cardio with strength trainning. You could scroll through the past workouts and simply try the ones that interest you. Look for the ones that have you do as many rounds as you can in 20 minutes. They will leave you sore and breathless.

You should send me your email again so I can email you some photos.
(From climing not from crossfit stuff. :oops: )
User Avatar
outofstep80

 
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:17 pm
Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin, United States
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts

Postby DukeJH » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:59 pm

+1 for Clyde Soles. His book gives decent guidance and enough options/variability that you shouldn't get bored and plateau.
User Avatar
DukeJH

 
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:12 am
Location: Huntington Beach, California, United States
Thanked: 22 times in 18 posts

Postby Woodie Hopper » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:03 pm

Push-ups, crunches, curls. Lots of them.

Cheap too.
User Avatar
Woodie Hopper

 
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:06 pm
Location: Denver & Leadville, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 24 times in 20 posts

Postby Augie Medina » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:13 pm

ExcitibleBoy wrote:Lifting weights for an hour twice a week oughta do you.


I agree- two good solid hours per week should do to maintain strength and mass. Three hours would be better but if you at least have time for two you should be ok. I would be sure and include multi-joint exercises like bench presses, deadlifts and squats. This minimum assumes you're not doing cardio at the extreme end like running 100 miles a week!
User Avatar
Augie Medina

 
Posts: 786
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: South Pasadena, California, United States
Thanked: 10 times in 7 posts

Postby bird » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:37 pm

Mountain Impulse wrote:I would be sure and include multi-joint exercises like bench presses, deadlifts and squats. This minimum assumes you're not doing cardio at the extreme end like running 100 miles a week!

A good start. KG, check out crossfit and check out mtnathlete.com. Rob, the coach at mtnathlete says "Strength is king", and I've had good results following a mix of these two.
Let's get up to the Cats again this winter.
User Avatar
bird

 
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Southampton, New York, United States
Thanked: 22 times in 20 posts

Postby kheegster » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:52 pm

I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...
User Avatar
kheegster

 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:29 pm
Location: Princeton, New Jersey
Thanked: 6 times in 2 posts

Postby CClaude » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:51 pm

kheegster wrote:I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...


Since your climbing workout should take precidence, try to do your gym workout on a day that it won't affect your climbing workout (even if you do it after your climbing workout (which is what I do). If you are working the stablizing muscles (like you should, such as the internal and external rotator cuffs for the shoulder, the hip muscles to protect the knees; should be done last.

The soreness means that you probably slightly overdoing it. You should be fatigued at the end of a workout but lasting soreness the day after a workout means that you will probably have to wait 72 hours (3 days) before your next workout to adequately let your muscles rebuild and repair. A work out before then would probably have a negative affect on your strength/ endurance development (instead of developing you will gradually become chronically fatigued and or injuried).

Back off on the run a bit in either distance or pace but go for 3 times a week if possible. You will build back up to the level you are know but at a slower rate (try to increase the pace or distance by 10% for 2-3 weeks and then hold it at the pace/distance for 2wks to allow for you body to acclimate to the stress level before you start building again). A slow development scheme is more desired as compared to injuries. Adequate rest between workouts is often understated or under appreciated.
User Avatar
CClaude

 
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:37 am
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona, United States
Thanked: 67 times in 40 posts

Postby bird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:09 pm

kheegster wrote:I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...

It depends on your goals. If you are looking to push your climbing in the gym from 5.11 to 5.12 (or whatever), then focus on the climbing. If you are looking to get stronger to make yourself "harder to kill" in the mountains, then the crossfit stuff will be very efficient. Try 1 day of heavy-ish squats or deadlifts each week. Then 2 metcons (circuits, ie: 5 pullups, 10 pushups 15 squats for 10 rounds - Or 20 sit ups, 20 back extensions 20 standing dumbell shoulder press as many times as you can in 10 minutes.)
You are not looking to bodybuild, but get fit, so isolation crap and weight machines are BS.
It's too much to learn here, but check out http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php ... wforum/16/ for easier versions of the crossfit WOD. Start slow and work up to it.
Also, being a bit sore is OK, don't worry about working out when you are mildly sore occasionally from DOMS. What's going to happen in the mountains? Will you be too sore from the approach to summit? No, you'll go for it. Train yourself to work through some occasional mild/moderate soreness. Feel free to email or pm me.
Last edited by bird on Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
bird

 
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Southampton, New York, United States
Thanked: 22 times in 20 posts

Postby CClaude » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:06 pm

bird wrote:
kheegster wrote:I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...

It depends on your goals. If you are looking to push your climbing in the gym from 5.11 to 5.12 (or whatever), then focus on the climbing. If you are looking to get stronger to make yourself "harder to kill" in the mountains, then the crossfit stuff will be very efficient. Try 1 day of heavy-ish squats or deadlifts each week. Then 2 metcons (circuits, ie: 5 pullups, 10 pushups 15 squats for 10 rounds - Or 20 sit ups, 20 back extensions 20 standing dumbell shoulder press as many times as you can in 10 minutes.)
You are not looking to bodybuild, but get fit, so isolation crap and weight machines are BS.
It's too much to learn here, but check out http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php ... wforum/16/ for easier versions of the crossfit WOD. Start slow and work up to it.
Also, being a bit sore is OK, don't worry about working out when you are mildly sore from DOMS. What's going to happen in the mountains? Will you be too sore from the approach to summit? No, you'll go for it. Train yourself to work through some mild/moderate soreness. Feel free to email or pm me.


The difference is sore on a day to day basis is not good. To get stronger the muscles must undergo super-compensation (the muscle breaks down and rebuilds completely). Anything less then complete recovery on a day to day basis results in chronic exhaustion and injury, both which will only make you weaker in the long run. Its a basic human physiology principle that you can't get around. Being injuried is the worst thing you can do for your development.

During the workout you may feel like death, but that is normal and expected. But the soreness shouldn't linger for days afterword, (though after a good climb that isn't a workout but is a hard (the word is relative) objective, you probably will feel a bit sore for a few days though. That is expected, but its not a day in and day out workout.
User Avatar
CClaude

 
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:37 am
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona, United States
Thanked: 67 times in 40 posts

Postby radson » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:17 pm

kheegster wrote:I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...


IN the latest incarnation of Sole's climbing for training, I see he is quite scathing of some of the exercises of mthathlete.
User Avatar
radson

 
Posts: 1937
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:34 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Thanked: 109 times in 76 posts

Postby bird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:28 pm

radson wrote:
kheegster wrote:I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...


IN the latest incarnation of Sole's climbing for training, I see he is quite scathing of some of the exercises of mthathlete.

Well duh! It's not like he's going to have much of a book if he says "mtnathlete rocks!" :D
User Avatar
bird

 
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Southampton, New York, United States
Thanked: 22 times in 20 posts

Postby bird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:30 pm

CClaude wrote:
bird wrote:
kheegster wrote:I've taken a look at some of the mtnathlete exercises and they seem pretty hardcore (I'm not sure I've ever done 10 sets of *anything*). Also I usually work out in my college gym which is free, but slightly crowded so I'm usually limited to the regular array of free weights and machines. The only open space is a stretching mat which is usually crowded with freshman girls :D .

Right now a typical schedule for my week looks like:
2 x 5 to 7 miles running
2 x climbing gym
2-3 x weight gym, maybe with intervals on the ellipticals as warmup

My main limitation seems to be recovery time. A long run or a solid resistance session will leave me sore enough the next day that I can't climb properly...

It depends on your goals. If you are looking to push your climbing in the gym from 5.11 to 5.12 (or whatever), then focus on the climbing. If you are looking to get stronger to make yourself "harder to kill" in the mountains, then the crossfit stuff will be very efficient. Try 1 day of heavy-ish squats or deadlifts each week. Then 2 metcons (circuits, ie: 5 pullups, 10 pushups 15 squats for 10 rounds - Or 20 sit ups, 20 back extensions 20 standing dumbell shoulder press as many times as you can in 10 minutes.)
You are not looking to bodybuild, but get fit, so isolation crap and weight machines are BS.
It's too much to learn here, but check out http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index.php ... wforum/16/ for easier versions of the crossfit WOD. Start slow and work up to it.
Also, being a bit sore is OK, don't worry about working out when you are mildly sore from DOMS. What's going to happen in the mountains? Will you be too sore from the approach to summit? No, you'll go for it. Train yourself to work through some mild/moderate soreness. Feel free to email or pm me.


The difference is sore on a day to day basis is not good. To get stronger the muscles must undergo super-compensation (the muscle breaks down and rebuilds completely). Anything less then complete recovery on a day to day basis results in chronic exhaustion and injury, both which will only make you weaker in the long run. Its a basic human physiology principle that you can't get around. Being injuried is the worst thing you can do for your development.

During the workout you may feel like death, but that is normal and expected. But the soreness shouldn't linger for days afterword, (though after a good climb that isn't a workout but is a hard (the word is relative) objective, you probably will feel a bit sore for a few days though. That is expected, but its not a day in and day out workout.

Good point. Edited to add the word occasional. Should not be sore every time.
User Avatar
bird

 
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: Southampton, New York, United States
Thanked: 22 times in 20 posts

Next

Return to Technique and Training

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.