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Technical climbing at altitude

Tips, tricks, workouts, injury advice.
 

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:19 am

joynlife wrote:all I do is slow down and keep dehydrated.
:lol:
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Postby The Chief » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:28 am

Joyinlife...

Let us all see some of your exploits by adding some of your knowledge via some TR's and Route Discrp's to the General Forum. All with Pic's of you, your party and what you completed.

Blind Avatar's as yourself that just make conceded negative ignorant conjectures without any actual proof of who they are, is nothing more than complete internet BS of someone that is no one that holds any substance.

Let's see who you actually are, what "technical climbing" of 5.10, WI5/6 or above that you have done above 10k.

Until then, please stop with this Trolling activity on General Forum topics and leave it to PnP.

And please share with us what this Polle is all about...

Thank you.

PS: My Employer has been above 21K far more times than you have been above 12K. He has summitted Everest twice etc, and his biggest concern within his Service is that his staff's is properly trained in the ability to monitor and properly react to any AMS, HAPE & HACE symptoms.
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Postby rhyang » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:36 am

Guys,

Allow me to make it plain for you. 2ski1peak is back. It just wants to troll SP.

Do not feed the troll. Simply ignore it. Let the elves know and pretty soon it will simply become another Deleted User.
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Postby The Chief » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:40 am

Yup.... My post just verified that Rob.

Just a worthless Troll.

Done.
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Postby kheegster » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:40 am

Dragging things more or less back on topic. I'm going to make an attempt at the Direct Exum on the Grand in a couple of weeks with only 2 nights of acclimatization (7,000ft then 11,500ft), and the climb is maybe a grade below my onsight limit at sea level.

It's going to be an interesting challenge. :D

I can't do any serious running or interval work as I'm trying to avoid stressing a suspect plantar fasciitis on my right ankle, so I have to focus on my upper body and arms. Should I be aiming for power endurance, or pure endurance sets?
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Postby Day Hiker » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:08 am

kheegster wrote:I'm trying to avoid stressing a suspect plantar fasciitis on my right ankle. . . .


I hate to break it to you, but the slog up to the Lower Saddle is arguably going to be the crux of the whole thing, especially with your ankle.
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Postby The Chief » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:52 pm

Polle???

I recently had a client that I guided on a 11 hour "One Day" MR ascent of Whitney from C to C. He admitted that he did not do the standard aerobic training for the gig.

His last gig was up Kili in Nov.

He almost didn't make the summit. After it was said and done, he said it was the hardest thing that he had ever done in his life and no where near the ease that he had on Kili.

Proper pre aerobic conditioning, hydration, diet, acclimatization prior to hitting the T/H etc are all very vital to preparing for any ascent above 10K.

You can Polle all you want. If you are not prepared for the gig, you are going to have your "Polle" ass handed to you and down you go as fast as you can. If you haven't yet reached the physiological threshold of HAPE/HACE.

This should answer your most recent question kheegster.

I highly recommend you find something that you can do to elevate and condition your aerobic ability prior or going to the Exum's altitude. It will make things that much better and easier.

Remember, aerobic conditioning increase the amount of your red blood cells therefore allowing them to absorb and transport 02 more efficiently and betters the systems ability to rid your muscles of lactic acid/C02 build-up.

Edit: Correction!!!
Last edited by The Chief on Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Alpynisto » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:22 pm

The Chief wrote:Remember, aerobic conditioning enlarges your red blood cells therefore allowing them to absorb and transport 02 more efficiently and betters the systems ability to rid your muscles of lactic acid/C02 build-up.


Sigh, so many errors in one sentence. No, RBCs do not increase in size from aerobic conditioning. And lactic acid does not build up, lactate does but it is not bad and does not cause a burn. Do some reading.

Back to earlier comment about my comment, the docs regretably dumbed down their discussion of diamox for the masses. But the truth remains that it does not speed acclimatization. If you want to do that, you need either a hypoxic tent or EPO-type drugs (bad idea). Diamox merely makes going up too fast a bit more tolerable for some.
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Postby The Chief » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:34 pm

Alpynisto wrote:
The Chief wrote:Remember, aerobic conditioning enlarges your red blood cells therefore allowing them to absorb and transport 02 more efficiently and betters the systems ability to rid your muscles of lactic acid/C02 build-up.


Sigh, so many errors in one sentence. No, RBCs do not increase in size from aerobic conditioning.


You are correct. Bad verbage on my part... It increases the amount of RBC's in one's system. Thus increasing one's aerobic capacity and anaerobic threshold which is vital for the high aerobic exertion of Technical Rock or Ice Work at altitude.

Lactic Acid build up = Anaerobic Threshold.

And of course you already knew that but so eloquently hesitated to add that vital info to this discussion.

Amazingly, I agree with you on your original and subsequent Diamox posts.
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Postby brandon » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:48 pm

Kheegster, get on the erg, the rowing machine. Or a bicycle. Running or hiking is not the only way to train your aerobic capacity. Chill/taper for a few days before launching.

What kind of partner you got for the Exum? more experienced or less?

I've done the grand from that side in 5 days, and car to car in a day complete exum. Try to head to the Meadows on night one, and the lower saddle night two. NEVERMIND, I see you've done that approach before. You want to start for the base of the route in the dark, so make sure you scout and perhaps cairn or memorize the approach the evening before.

For experienced climbers, the approach up garnet canyon is the physical crux. Go as light as you can. Ie, rack up like you're gonna go alpine cragging, then try to keep EVERYTHING else to 10 lbs max. I just add a sleeping bag/bivy, necessary food, and smokey treats.

Other's gonna find the black face, an icy wind tunnel, the route finding on the upper, or the friction pitch the crux. It's easy to retreat via wallstreet after the lower exum, and head back up the next day for the upper if you run slow.

I've climbed the grand many times, PM with your phone # if you want any more info.
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Postby kheegster » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:55 am

Thanks for the suggestion on the rowing machine and bike. I'm just so used to running and hiking that I didn't think about that!

Partner is less experienced but physically stronger, also he just climbed Rainier so I won't feel too bad asking him to carry more crap on the approach. We're planning on 2 nights at the Lower Saddle so I'm considering the idea of just chilling out on the first day and climbing on the 2nd if we have a high pressure system in the area.

I'm pretty good at moving fast on easy terrain so I'm not particularly worried about the upper ridge, also I'm using the Rossiter guide which is way more informative than Ortenberger & Jackson which was what we used last time I was there. We're probably bringing double ropes so that we can bail from anywhere on the route.
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Postby rhyang » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:28 pm

I went to my doc on Thursday and explained about how the diamox hadn't really helped, and that I wanted to get tested for anemia. Since I hadn't had any lab work done for two years she ordered a set of tests: ferritin, B12, cholesterol, thyroid, and diabetes among them.

Turns out it all came back normal. I guess this means I'm just old and weak :oops: She also mentioned that I might try the higher dosage to see if it helps. And I guess I'll just keep training and see how next year's season goes. Thanks everyone for the advice !
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Postby Guyzo » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:44 pm

rhyang wrote:I went to my doc on Thursday and explained about how the diamox hadn't really helped, and that I wanted to get tested for anemia. Since I hadn't had any lab work done for two years she ordered a set of tests: ferritin, B12, cholesterol, thyroid, and diabetes among them.

Turns out it all came back normal. I guess this means I'm just old and weak :oops: She also mentioned that I might try the higher dosage to see if it helps. And I guess I'll just keep training and see how next year's season goes. Thanks everyone for the advice !


Rob, don't worry, "old and weak" means you can still rock-climb, in california, at least.

Dump the Diamox shit...... I mean, can something that makes good beer taste bad be worthwhile?

:wink:
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Postby radson » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:50 pm

The Chief wrote:Polle???

I recently had a client that I guided on a 11 hour "One Day" MR ascent of Whitney from C to C. He admitted that he did not do the standard aerobic training for the gig.

His last gig was up Kili in Nov.

He almost didn't make the summit. After it was said and done, he said it was the hardest thing that he had ever done in his life and no where near the ease that he had on Kili.

Proper pre aerobic conditioning, hydration, diet, acclimatization prior to hitting the T/H etc are all very vital to preparing for any ascent above 10K.

You can Polle all you want. If you are not prepared for the gig, you are going to have your "Polle" ass handed to you and down you go as fast as you can. If you haven't yet reached the physiological threshold of HAPE/HACE.

This should answer your most recent question kheegster.

I highly recommend you find something that you can do to elevate and condition your aerobic ability prior or going to the Exum's altitude. It will make things that much better and easier.

Remember, aerobic conditioning increase the amount of your red blood cells therefore allowing them to absorb and transport 02 more efficiently and betters the systems ability to rid your muscles of lactic acid/C02 build-up.

Edit: Correction!!!


polle. polle on kili is important. its hard to acclimatise on Kili and going slowly once you are there for most mere mortals, means they have much better chance of acclimatising.
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