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To Anyone Interested

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To Anyone Interested

Postby Aaron Johnson » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:32 am

SP members:

I was shocked, saddened and hurt to come to SP and find the thread “Why Treat Other Species Like Crap” in the GENERAL forum, and that it had been permitted to remain there. In this increasingly troubled world, as our country continues its unfortunate decline into obscure has-been status, don’t we have enough persecution going on that I must find it here, on SP? Islamists are persecuted in America. Christians and Jews are persecuted in the Middle East, and increasingly so in America. To find persecution foisted on others by current members, and thoughtlessly supported through ignorance and indifference by SP’s staff is a slap in the face to this long-time member. For certain, it is a rude awakening.

On recent visits to SP, I’ve noticed visitation is down and nothing happens in the forum. Contribution quality is paltry, particularly for America. I’ve always defended SP, holding out faith that it would grow popular again and see a renewed interest. It’s easy to see why interest continues to wane when discussions such as this are permitted to carry on in the general section of the forum. Most of SP’s original founding members have moved on. I was one of the last hold-outs that endeavored to continue supporting the SP community. Perhaps I should have “awakened” when they departed to save me this hurtful experience I find myself in. Some remaining “old ones” still maintain pages out of honor and pride, all of which may also soon be history with the posting of this notice.

A prospective new member of any religious persuasion would think twice about joining a community so full of persecution and insensitivity. Mean spirited and thoughtless comments in this thread, and probably elsewhere have no doubt alienated many SP members, including me. I am a Christian, and my wife Ellen is Jewish. We’ve been prominent members since SP’s earliest beginnings. We were contributors and SP activity sponsors for nearly ten years. I had a pivotal role in building SP and attracting the huge number of members following the completion of SPv2. I find myself in very deep sorrow that SP has descended this low. Well respected SP member and my dear departed friend Vernon (saintgrizzly) would be deeply saddened by what has happened here.

I cannot in good conscience allow my material to remain on SP. Coming to realization sooner than anticipated, the only evidence of my presence on SP will be my profile page. Most of my material is already removed, meaning around 100 routes and mountains exclusive to SP that could be found nowhere else. Trip reports, special objects, articles and albums have been removed. Low and high profile mountains and area pages originally created by me or adopted in SP’s first or second year have been removed. Some recent adoptions have also been removed.

All route descriptions have been removed, which includes standard routes on a number of important mountains, including Colorado’s fourteeners. Owners of these mountain pages will need to establish their own route pages lest SP’s audience continues to fall away along with its reputation. Some of these important mountain pages will already be transferred by me to members I feel deserve a chance at maintaining them. Be advised that the pages will be transferred empty. None of my material will remain, so the new owner will have some immediate work to do. These pages see plenty of traffic and visitors will not be impressed to find an empty page, which is contrary to SP’s hard earned reputation. I will do my best to transfer the pages as promptly as possible. New owners are advised to begin their work immediately. Be advised as time permits, I will be removing my photography as well, so the “red x” will be popping up in various places.

Those interested in taking over ownership of the remaining pages currently in my care should refer to the listings HERE and contact me ASAP. Requests for transfer of pages must be made via PM directly to me. PMs to mtnhiker13 will not be answered and will be deleted. Any inappropriate PMs will be forwarded to the staff (for what good that will do). I will not respond to any PMs other than requests for pages. No emails will be accepted or responded to. On March 19, my birthday (and SP’s “birthday” when it was first placed on the internet and viewable to a limited clientele), any remaining pages will be deleted. Pages currently exempt from this announcement: ARCHES NATIONAL PARK, PILOT KNOB, WEST COULOIR/PILOT KNOB (Route).

Frankly, I do not care about the end result, just as the membership posting vitriol don’t care about SP’s reputation. The indifference of the staff only reinforces this continued behavior and further decline of this once amazing web site. It is sadly only a shell of its former self. If and when SP should perish, it will be deserved. The members and the staff have lost sight of SP’s greatness to permit such to exist on SP. Perhaps Josh and Ryle agree, having seen the inevitable coming long ago when they decided to wash their hands of it, just as I do now.
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Josh Lewis » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:33 am

Aaron Johnson wrote:I was shocked, saddened and hurt to come to SP and find the thread “Why Treat Other Species Like Crap” in the GENERAL forum, and that it had been permitted to remain there. In this increasingly troubled world, as our country continues its unfortunate decline into obscure has-been status, don’t we have enough persecution going on that I must find it here, on SP?


Dear Aaron Johnson,

I very much agree with what you said about the persecution and disrespect I been seeing these days. I been discouraged by it myself and was surprised to see it remain in the General Topic.

Aaron Johnson wrote:A prospective new member of any religious persuasion would think twice about joining a community so full of persecution and insensitivity. Mean spirited and thoughtless comments in this thread, and probably elsewhere have no doubt alienated many SP members, including me


I couldn't have said it better myself AJ.

Thanks Aaron Johnson for all your help with SP in it's earlier days. I remember your profile once said something about time and going away, so here's a quote for you.

"Don't be covered up by the sands of time; please stay on top of them !" -lcarreau

Image

It sounds like you know what the most important things are, and that your listening to you heart into knowing what's right. It's sad that your going, but at the same time I completely respect you decision.

My Best Wishes
And God Bless
My Websites: Alpine Josh · Alpine Ascent · AceMaps
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby visentin » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:47 am

Aaron,
The real SP is SP itself with its content, not the forum. The pages are there, the forum is wind.
There are two distinct communities who coexist here, those who spend time polluting the forums, and those who post pages.
That's all I have to say, if it can cheer you up a bit :)
Eric
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Diego Sahagún » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:01 am

Eric, there is another group, people who post in both sections...

Aaaron, I said in that thread that the "crap" topic had to be changed. I never said that it had to be bumped, wich is what elves have done when I posted a new topic in the bad submissions board saying the first. Anyway, SP is a MASTERPIECE in my opinion :!: We'll miss you mate :!:
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby visentin » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:07 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:Eric, there is another group, people who post in both sections...


I said those who pollute forums :) well you are a bit stiff about the only usage of the Spanish in "Spanish team", but we can't say you are a bad forum member :)
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Diego Sahagún » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:21 pm

LOL :lol:
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby PAROFES » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:37 pm

Aaron Johnson wrote:SP members:

I was shocked, saddened and hurt to come to SP and find the thread “Why Treat Other Species Like Crap” in the GENERAL forum, and that it had been permitted to remain there. In this increasingly troubled world, as our country continues its unfortunate decline into obscure has-been status, don’t we have enough persecution going on that I must find it here, on SP? Islamists are persecuted in America. Christians and Jews are persecuted in the Middle East, and increasingly so in America. To find persecution foisted on others by current members, and thoughtlessly supported through ignorance and indifference by SP’s staff is a slap in the face to this long-time member. For certain, it is a rude awakening.

On recent visits to SP, I’ve noticed visitation is down and nothing happens in the forum. Contribution quality is paltry, particularly for America. I’ve always defended SP, holding out faith that it would grow popular again and see a renewed interest. It’s easy to see why interest continues to wane when discussions such as this are permitted to carry on in the general section of the forum. Most of SP’s original founding members have moved on. I was one of the last hold-outs that endeavored to continue supporting the SP community. Perhaps I should have “awakened” when they departed to save me this hurtful experience I find myself in. Some remaining “old ones” still maintain pages out of honor and pride, all of which may also soon be history with the posting of this notice.

A prospective new member of any religious persuasion would think twice about joining a community so full of persecution and insensitivity. Mean spirited and thoughtless comments in this thread, and probably elsewhere have no doubt alienated many SP members, including me. I am a Christian, and my wife Ellen is Jewish. We’ve been prominent members since SP’s earliest beginnings. We were contributors and SP activity sponsors for nearly ten years. I had a pivotal role in building SP and attracting the huge number of members following the completion of SPv2. I find myself in very deep sorrow that SP has descended this low. Well respected SP member and my dear departed friend Vernon (saintgrizzly) would be deeply saddened by what has happened here.

I cannot in good conscience allow my material to remain on SP. Coming to realization sooner than anticipated, the only evidence of my presence on SP will be my profile page. Most of my material is already removed, meaning around 100 routes and mountains exclusive to SP that could be found nowhere else. Trip reports, special objects, articles and albums have been removed. Low and high profile mountains and area pages originally created by me or adopted in SP’s first or second year have been removed. Some recent adoptions have also been removed.

All route descriptions have been removed, which includes standard routes on a number of important mountains, including Colorado’s fourteeners. Owners of these mountain pages will need to establish their own route pages lest SP’s audience continues to fall away along with its reputation. Some of these important mountain pages will already be transferred by me to members I feel deserve a chance at maintaining them. Be advised that the pages will be transferred empty. None of my material will remain, so the new owner will have some immediate work to do. These pages see plenty of traffic and visitors will not be impressed to find an empty page, which is contrary to SP’s hard earned reputation. I will do my best to transfer the pages as promptly as possible. New owners are advised to begin their work immediately. Be advised as time permits, I will be removing my photography as well, so the “red x” will be popping up in various places.

Those interested in taking over ownership of the remaining pages currently in my care should refer to the listings HERE and contact me ASAP. Requests for transfer of pages must be made via PM directly to me. PMs to mtnhiker13 will not be answered and will be deleted. Any inappropriate PMs will be forwarded to the staff (for what good that will do). I will not respond to any PMs other than requests for pages. No emails will be accepted or responded to. On March 19, my birthday (and SP’s “birthday” when it was first placed on the internet and viewable to a limited clientele), any remaining pages will be deleted. Pages currently exempt from this announcement: ARCHES NATIONAL PARK, PILOT KNOB, WEST COULOIR/PILOT KNOB (Route).

Frankly, I do not care about the end result, just as the membership posting vitriol don’t care about SP’s reputation. The indifference of the staff only reinforces this continued behavior and further decline of this once amazing web site. It is sadly only a shell of its former self. If and when SP should perish, it will be deserved. The members and the staff have lost sight of SP’s greatness to permit such to exist on SP. Perhaps Josh and Ryle agree, having seen the inevitable coming long ago when they decided to wash their hands of it, just as I do now.


AJ,

I barely participate in forum, my numbers clarify that. But when such events come, I don't like to step aside and say nothing.
I am deeply sorry about your decision as SP is the world biggest resource for mountain info, and we made this real, possible.

As a brazilian member I feel obligated to publish here trip reports, articles, mountain pages, photos, and any other things I can to display south american mountains to folks around the globe. Especially brazilian ones of course. It is quite a big peace of work, by I am happy to do it, or at least I used to be.

Don't think you are losing summit post, I say summit post is losing you.

Regarding the aspects of your decision, I understand and respect them all, you are totally right on your thoughts. When I read the mentioned thread I didn't even feel like write something, and I will not. Summit Post changed a lot in just a couple years, and not a good change, I see that. Man when you read that Josh is discouraged, that makes you think about it. Every time he puts up an album there is like 100 photos! That is pure excitement.

Best wishes to you, know you and your pages will be missed.

Hugs

Paulo
http://www.altamontanha.com
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Holsti97 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:59 pm

Aaron-

I understand your discouragement and respect your opinions. However, removing your material hurts those who use well-written pages and trip reports for planning hikes and climbs. For someone like me who lives in the Midwest and doesn't have the connections with people in the Western mountain states the pages that you wrote in the past were a valuable resource. Please don't let a few bad eggs ruin things for the rest of the Summitpost community who enjoy the incredible mountain pages, photography, and trip reports. Restore and keep your pages on SP.
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Fred Spicker » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:39 pm

I guess that answers my question as to why Aaron suddenly transferred a couple of route pages to me...

Like with most forum entries, I never even looked in on the one in question because I knew it would just be bullshit and I don't have enough time to spend reading bullshit. Now it seems that I have missed it all together - OH DARN!

SP is like anything else (unfortunately - when it was a pure climbing site it was exceptional) - if you aren't interested in whatever it is that's there (like new "mountains" with "hill" in the name) just don't bother looking at it or reading it.
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby mvs » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:58 pm

Hmm.

(EDIT: Unnecessarily bitter comment removed here.)

This is a place for people who love mountains to write about them, to gather and talk. I know the Elves work constantly to deal with hateful speech and have protected the integrity of SP more than can be said. I have seen the hours of work and discussion they put into that topic, so it's clear to me that they are acting in good faith. Aaron forgets that.

God speed, and enjoy the rest of life, Aaron! I think we'd all agree that your happiness is way more important than your contributions here. Take them away and climb to new heights. Rest assured we don't give a damn about some random Google user coming in to (horror!) a blank page. We write here because we love mountains, not because we are service workers providing a 99.999% uptime service, jeesh.
Last edited by mvs on Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby BeDrinkable » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:28 pm

Yikes. Aaron, your post was enough to rouse me out of hibernation and make a response, which has been a rarity for me over the last couple of years.

I'm sincerely sorry that you feel that you have to remove yourself from the website. The thread in question is certainly one that, in the old days, would have been bombed to PnP. Of course, the website is different now than it was then. I honestly don't know that state of the thread since I could see where it was headed and have not visited it since it was young. In my few interactions with you I have felt you to be an honest and thoughtful contributor to the site and a helpful and kind writer in the forums. I hope you continue to be wherever you go next.
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby seano » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:49 pm

This seems like a bizarre overreaction. If you don't like the forums, don't visit them. I find the regional boards useful, but the rest are mostly crap, so I tend to ignore them. It's Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is crap."
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Fletch » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Aaron - I respect you tremendously, but you are being way too sensitive about this "persecution" you're talking about. It's the internet. Take a deep breath. Let the staff catch up. Remember they are volunteers. Simmer down. And frankly, making it a political/religious matter makes you no better than the members you are critisizing for "persecution."

Maybe give this some thought before you leave? I'm fine with you leaving, but just make sure you are leaving for the right reasons. I left once because I thought the "elders" were being stubborn and selfish and refused to change SP (for the better in my opinion). I still feel that way, but that doesnt make me a bad person. For every member that feels SP has "lost" something, there is another member that feels it hasnt "gained" enough. I personally feel like this site has a MySpace feel and the "elders" are keeping the Facebook transition suffocated for fear of thier almighty butterfly pics and trekking pages.

Anyway, keep the persecution talk and whats wrong with SP seperate. They are not one in the same. As I said, you seem like a good dude. Just maybe think about it for a bit. If you are dead set on it, then all the best.
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Re: To Anyone Interested

Postby Bubba Suess » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:37 pm

twoshuzz wrote:IMHO, Aaron has raised valid points for consideration. Yeah, it feels like a kick to the groin with steel toed boots, but something has awoken. Regardless of method, agreeable or not, his post warrants consideration, IMHO.


I agree. What was going on in the thread was nothing more than presuppositional bigotry. It is sad that people are willing to relegate others to second class status just because of their epistemology. Make no mistake, they are bigots. They have lost sight of the fact that we are all on this site because we love the same thing. How much does it matter what the source of that love is? If anything, this ought to be an opportunity for the secular and religious, right and left, backpacker or climber, to find common ground, something that is in short supply these days.

I am sad to see Aaron go. I appreciated his even-handed leadership and he was a great contributor. Summitpost is less without he and Ellen. I hope that as time goes on, new, great contributors will step up and help Summitpost grow again. However, I must say that as the first generation of Summitposters moves on, some of the elan is being lost. If those who dominated the thread in question are the ones to attempt to fill the gap, then Summitpost's days are indeed numbered. Still, I hope that as a community, we can leap this hurdle and keep Summitpost on the right track. It is still one of the best sites for these kinds of activities.
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