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Toenail-less big toe=cold

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Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby spiritualspatula » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:10 am

I lost the toenail off my big toe last summer in a dirt jumping accident, and I don't think it's ever going to grow back properly (it's...sorta there). I noticed this winter that it gets abnormally cold now, and while all my other toes and other foot will be happy, it will be cold (for whatever reason). This may be a gear question or a medical question, but any suggestions for making a single toe warmer? It's cold enough that it's somewhat uncomfortably so at times.
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:07 am

I am having all that is left of my toe nails permanently removed on Thurs...lets hope no one can substantiate your claim medically. I prefer warm toes. Working on a multitude of stories to tell little kids who ask me what happened.
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby spiritualspatula » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:31 am

How many are you getting removed and what did you do to mangle them initially, out of curiosity?
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:03 pm

9, leaving one for posterity. 20 years of extreme abuse in mountaineering boots and climbing shoes. Suffering with one of them at JTtree last week....took my shoe off on lead just to see if there was a pebble in there even though I knew very well there was not. Have done this many times before. Enough is enough I said. When I got home, negotiated what I thought was a pretty damn good deal with the local Veterinarian, $600 for permanent removal, post op included (was going to be $300 for just one!). I am not going to take 2 weeks off for each toe nail that goes south....all or nothing man....gave everyone a chance to convince me toe nails served some greater purpose....no one could.....had a crack fest at Zion yesterday with good friends, realizing it might be my last day on earth. Wish me luck. "Man dies under the blade of a podiatrist....."
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby SKI » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:25 pm

Dow, let us know how it affects your climbing/skiing. Maybe a TR? I'm fairly curious because two of my toes seem to be permenantly black and I hate it how they hurt so bad- especially while ice and crack climbing.
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:03 pm

SKI wrote:Dow, let us know how it affects your climbing/skiing. Maybe a TR? I'm fairly curious because two of my toes seem to be permenantly black and I hate it how they hurt so bad- especially while ice and crack climbing.


that is exactly what I was going through....oddly one that has never been affected in some negative manner, going to leave it alone as an experiment I suppose...see if there is any difference at all....hard time finding athletes who report back on this...the average patient though seems to not notice much....cosmetic seemed to be everyone's concern which affects me zero....so lets see if I need to be committed in two months or start my own toe nail removal service, pint of vodka included.....guinea pig stardom!...60 minute count down from this post....
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:27 pm

What you are seeing here is the acid like burn to permanently remove the foundation of the nail...suppose to drain like this for approx 2 weeks. The Dr said many opt for a hospital procedure when they have them all removed like this, but $650 vs $2500 is a huge difference. The only pain it would save are the numbing shots, several on each toe. Can't imagine that being worth the extra $$$ myself. They numb you so good, you get all optimistic about walking around and stuff. Then night sets in and you get less cocky. Bleeds a lot more than you think. Taking the stuck gauze off this morning was pretty damn painful. Downhill from here. Will report for the rest of you whether I miss them or not, I left one control nail (only 9 removed) out of curiosity. Will bet I don't miss them one bit.
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Smoove910 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:34 am

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:07 pm

zodis wrote:Oh, how pleasant. :lol:
Good call staying out of the hospital, though. You could very well have picked up an antibiotic resistant infection.


At 47, with nothing more than an Animal Science Degree, three (personal) health regimens I am fairly adamant about.

1. Hospitals are not healthy alternatives to home/office care/procedures. Avoid at all "cost".
2. When sick, exercise as vigorously as you normally would. The endorphin release, sweat, etc, will improve your condition.
3. Open air wound healing is so much more effective than bandages. When we cut open a horse, we constantly flush the wound and keep it open for quick healing. These toes will heal much quickly if I keep them clean and open to air. Bandages are more a convenience to societal habits than good for the wound in many circumstances.

There, you have it....Dr. Dow, MD...anyone need their ton nails ripped off, let me know...now that I have seen it done, I got the procedure down.....and will charge half what my Dr did as a learning curve discount
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:03 pm

update.......72hrs...constant drainage. Main pain issue seems to be smaller nail on one of my 2nd toes. Wonder if acid burn procedure does not get down into nerves and bone on occasion. Way more painful than other nails removed. However, I had considered having part of this toe partially amputated before due to issues, so perhaps the extra pain is related to that. They drain all day long. My optimism about climbing in one week is clearly blown...
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Grampahawk » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:20 pm

Dow Williams wrote:
zodis wrote:Oh, how pleasant. :lol:
Good call staying out of the hospital, though. You could very well have picked up an antibiotic resistant infection.


At 47, with nothing more than an Animal Science Degree, three (personal) health regimens I am fairly adamant about.

1. Hospitals are not healthy alternatives to home/office care/procedures. Avoid at all "cost".
2. When sick, exercise as vigorously as you normally would. The endorphin release, sweat, etc, will improve your condition.
3. Open air wound healing is so much more effective than bandages. When we cut open a horse, we constantly flush the wound and keep it open for quick healing. These toes will heal much quickly if I keep them clean and open to air. Bandages are more a convenience to societal habits than good for the wound in many circumstances.

Double DAMMMMM! Good luck in the recovery, Dow.
There, you have it....Dr. Dow, MD...anyone need their ton nails ripped off, let me know...now that I have seen it done, I got the procedure down.....and will charge half what my Dr did as a learning curve discount
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby SKI » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:38 am

Smoove910 wrote:DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!



DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMN! x10
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Dow Williams » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:06 pm

Image
One Week Update. 7 day progression to the hour. What I have learned so far (little to no good beta out there). I have kept mine open the whole time. To bandage them would have been a complete mess. You are basically walking a fine line here....encouraging them to heal, but not too quickly to prevent the drainage from the slow burning acid procedure (permanent removal process). I find that in the morning, they are dry and healed over (I keep my feet elevated). Although this looks and feels good originally, as morning progresses they start to swell and need to be scrubbed open so the acid burn continues to drain. Pain from swelling pretty much helps you face the scrubbing even though that is pretty damn painful. Still don't walk normal yet. Body or nerves in the toe don't allow you to make a full heel to toe stroke. Looking to hopefully get out for a run in week two and climbing would seem at least 3 weeks out total and then I expect some serious sensitivity adjustment.

The pro? no question doing 9 at once. You can imagine I pay little notice to the 7 smaller ones. If a guy had one smaller one done, he/she would pay a ton of attention to it.

Con? I don't think my doc in our small town anyway, has really done this procedure on to many younger active types. So they offered little in the way of expectations or what to do. I am thinking many folks who get this done are under nurses care anyway.

Biggest Lesson? He gave me a prescription for pain and antibiotics. The antibiotic they said no big deal, just take when/if you see a lot of redness. Well one clearly got infected (big right toe in photo). I believe if removing 9 at once, they can go ahead an just tell the patient to take a round of antibiotics. I have been very prudent and careful, but impossible to avoid infection with the acid burn seeping open the wound all day. Next update two weeks. Hope this is helpful for fellow adventure sorts curious about this procedure/idea.

Is it worth it? Dude, I sure hope so!
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Re: Toenail-less big toe=cold

Postby Andes6000 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:14 pm

You might be on to something, downside may be friction burns if the tissue there remains tender. Hopefully nothing grows back, some people have a regenerative nail matrix that takes several removal/acid burns (my case with ingrown toenails). It's something society will frown upon at first, but that's how new ideas start and in the ntdf it might be commonplace to see billboards offering complete toe-nail removal with a free vasectomy!
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