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Using BD ATC Guide as an ascender

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Postby brenta » Wed May 19, 2010 6:04 pm

The main difference is that unlike the Prusik the Klemheist (or Machard) is meant to lock in one direction only.
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Postby Augie Medina » Wed May 19, 2010 7:49 pm

The Klemheist also slides up easier than the prusik and can be made with webbling/sling altho cord works better.
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Postby drpw » Sun May 23, 2010 5:26 pm

Don't know if anyone cares, but I found a good example of using the ATC as an ascender:

http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/200 ... trick.html

It's exactly what I was thinking of.
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Postby climbxclimb » Sun May 23, 2010 6:39 pm

There is a good video on how to use the ATC Guide as an ascender on:
http://climbinglife.com
I think this was already mentioned.
The point is that you can use all kind of frictions knots to ascend the rope, and you should choose them depending on the situation (for example icy rope or not), and diameter of the rope.
But without doubt with the ATC Guide it is easier, especially if you are dealing with ropes of 8mm or 8.5mm, and you are carrying the device anyway as belay device...a big advantage of the ATC Guide, is that it can be reversed in rappel mode after ascending the rope with a simple transition.
It would be a little more problematic to set up the device for ascending the rope if the rope is under tension like when you are not on the ground and you are hanging on it. In that case you first have to release the tension on the rope, with a friction knot you would not need to do so.
I personally used prusiks and other friction knots to climb the rope in many occasions, even in a real dire situation to get myself out of a crevasse after a 30ft fall and everything worked just fine, but I have to say that with a super skinny iced rope things are a little different...and that is where the ATC Guide or a Tibloc or a Ropeman MK excel...
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Postby The Chief » Sun May 23, 2010 8:04 pm

brenta wrote:The main difference is that unlike the Prusik the Klemheist (or Machard) is meant to lock in one direction only.


Thus making it a perfect, efficient, effective and ultra safe knot Ascender System, IMO.
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Postby peladoboton » Mon May 24, 2010 7:16 pm

Practice in a variety of situations and scenarios is the key, in my opinion.
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Postby ARosenthal » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:36 pm

nhluhr wrote:
The Chief wrote:If I were ever in any situ in which I needed to ascend a rope WITHOUT the proper piece of mechanical eq that is designed to do so, I would instantly use these two very safe and well proven methods to do so. I have indeed become well versed in the use of both techniques over the years. These both have saved my ass on a few occasions as a matter of fact.


All I can say in this matter, please do not try and improvise eq and use them for what they are not intended for without first thoroughly researching the potential dangers and consequences of doing so.
#1
<prussiks>

#2
<klemheist>


Keep It Simple & Standardized!
Can you help me understand the difference in application between a klemheist and a prussik? The klemheist seems easier to do one-handed (for me) so I'm wondering if there's a reason I should worry about using it?


As far as I know there's no disadvantage to the kleimheist, an advantage to the knot may be that it can be tied with webbing as well as cord.


edited for f%@#up.
Last edited by ARosenthal on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Augie Medina » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:00 pm

ARosenthal wrote:

Kleimheist vs. prusik generally comes down to the fact that the kleim requires a carabiner where the prusik does not. In many cases weight is minimized and as such extra locking carabiners may not be available. In this case the prusik is the only choice. I think the kleimheist may grip an icy rope better, so that may be an advantage. As far as I know there's no disadvantage to the kleimheist as long as you have the gear to rig it; they're both a pain to release when weighted but the kleim is probably easier.


Kleimheist is not tied with a carabiner. The friction knot tied with a carabiner is the Bachman. The Bachman is similar to the Kleimheist, the difference being the cord is wrapped around the spine of the carabiner and the rope.
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Postby ARosenthal » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:17 pm

Mountain Impulse wrote:
ARosenthal wrote:

Kleimheist vs. prusik generally comes down to the fact that the kleim requires a carabiner where the prusik does not. In many cases weight is minimized and as such extra locking carabiners may not be available. In this case the prusik is the only choice. I think the kleimheist may grip an icy rope better, so that may be an advantage. As far as I know there's no disadvantage to the kleimheist as long as you have the gear to rig it; they're both a pain to release when weighted but the kleim is probably easier.


Kleimheist is not tied with a carabiner. The friction knot tied with a carabiner is the Bachman. The Bachman is similar to the Kleimheist, the difference being the cord is wrapped around the spine of the carabiner and the rope.



You're right, I was thinking bachman. I guess the main difference then might be that the kleim (and bachman for that matter) can be tied with slings whereas a prussik cannot.
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Postby Dave Dinnell » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:19 pm

I had to ascend a long section of Lower Cathedral Spire in Yos. to unjam some ropes once long ago. Didn't have any cord handy... 9/16 inch runners tied with Prussiks worked just fine.
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