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Using BD ATC Guide as an ascender

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Using BD ATC Guide as an ascender

Postby drpw » Tue May 18, 2010 12:26 am

I've been messing around with the use of a BD ATC guide belay device as an ascender for crevasse rescue situations. Does anyone know if there are any concerns as to rope damage using this device this way?
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Postby sshankle » Tue May 18, 2010 12:31 am

If you mean using it like grigri in the pic below (from a climbing.com tech tip), I think you are in good shape. No worries. Make sure your lockers are locked and correctly positioned and jug away.

Image
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Postby ksolem » Tue May 18, 2010 12:50 am

Why on earth someone would elect voluntarliy to climb a rope by this method is beyond me. Everything is knotted, so if the angle of ascent changes or an overhang is encountered or you just plain set it up off by a few inches means you struggle, out of balance all the way up, unable to adjust?

And someone (yeah, I know who,) actually takes the time to detail this as a drawing?

A pair of aiders weigh ounces.

Oh, to your question, using an ATC type device in place of a locking ascender? You better know what you're doing.

If I'm on a rope with a jumar and a gri gri I know I'm safe. I'd prefer two jumars to one and a belay device.

my .02

Oh, looks like it's going to get ugly getting around the lip with the rope cutting into the sod and all. Wasn't bonehead on top supposed to defend against this with a fender or something? The implication is that he lead it, as in saying it's anchored now? How the f*ck did he get up?
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Postby SKI » Tue May 18, 2010 1:21 am

She's extricating herself from a crevasse. That's not sod. Yes, the lip will be ugly assuming that the guy didnt place and axe or a pack to safeguard from the rope cutting into the glacier. The rope will more than likely be too icy for a gri to function properly. This topic and it's content are too far sideways to fix at this point.
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Postby BigMitch » Tue May 18, 2010 1:31 am

FYI. There is a video on www.climbinglife.com on how to use the ATC guide for this.
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Postby drpw » Tue May 18, 2010 3:04 am

AlpineAffinity wrote:She's extricating herself from a crevasse. That's not sod. Yes, the lip will be ugly assuming that the guy didnt place and axe or a pack to safeguard from the rope cutting into the glacier. The rope will more than likely be too icy for a gri to function properly. This topic and it's content are too far sideways to fix at this point.


Is it a bad idea?
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Postby SKI » Tue May 18, 2010 3:17 am

The illustrated method used to ascend a fixed line is one of many that are in-fact useful. This one is problematic (forgetting that she is in a crevasse) however, because it is a system predicated on the assumption that the user has: (a) a left-handed ascender, (b) the user is right-handed and finally (c) the user has a free right hand to work the gri (i.e she's not squeezed in or trying to ascend with the wall obstructing her right side). For crevasse-rescue situations, I personally use a traxion pulley and a tibloc ascender in conjuction with stirrups. The traxion would be where the gri-gri is and the tibloc where the ascender is being used. Such a system is far and away more lightweight, allots for funky moves to the surface and is universally directional. It also bites icy ropes of thinner diameters (like you would use on a glacier) much better. Gri-gri's have no place on a glacier and should be avoided due to the nature of the environment.

Hope this helps

-ski
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Postby drpw » Tue May 18, 2010 3:28 am

I've been trying out hanging from the rafters and the auto locking function of the ATC seems to work really well for this, after doing almost everything I could imagine with the rope it stays locked. On top of that, I have the foot prussik stopped about half way and clipped into my belay loop so that I can still ascend with it but if the ATC does slide for some reason the prussik will back it up. I really like this system, it's fairly easy and very light weight. I do wonder how well it will work with an icy 8.5mm rope though.
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Postby ksolem » Tue May 18, 2010 4:17 pm

AlpineAffinity wrote: ...This topic and it's content are too far sideways to fix at this point.


Sorry about that. For some reason I saw it as a caving picture. Either way if I had those tools at my disposal (and a few runners) that's not how I'd set it up - especially if I were wedged in a cravasse probably with crampons on.
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Postby The Chief » Tue May 18, 2010 4:26 pm

If I were ever in any situ in which I needed to ascend a rope WITHOUT the proper piece of mechanical eq that is designed to do so, I would instantly use these two very safe and well proven methods to do so. I have indeed become well versed in the use of both techniques over the years. These both have saved my ass on a few occasions as a matter of fact.


All I can say in this matter, please do not try and improvise eq and use them for what they are not intended for without first thoroughly researching the potential dangers and consequences of doing so.
#1
Image

#2
Image


Keep It Simple & Standardized!
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Postby welle » Tue May 18, 2010 4:53 pm

The Chief wrote:
Keep It Simple & Standardized!


I very much agree with Chief's mantra. Sadly, the recent accident in Yosemite has shown that a use of non-standard and (oftentimes) complicated rigs can prove to be fatal.
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Postby JackCarr » Tue May 18, 2010 8:46 pm

+1 for prussiks. So cheap, so light, so easy and multiple applications. Why use anything else?
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Postby sshankle » Tue May 18, 2010 10:37 pm

FWIW, I agree with all the above posts on better and simplier approaches to ascending ropes. I use prussiks or a tiblocs, that's it. My first post (with the pic) was just an opinion on the OP's question of rope damage. I hope I didn't cause too much confusion... :?
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Postby Augie Medina » Tue May 18, 2010 10:40 pm

Kliemheist goooood.
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Postby nhluhr » Wed May 19, 2010 5:24 pm

The Chief wrote:If I were ever in any situ in which I needed to ascend a rope WITHOUT the proper piece of mechanical eq that is designed to do so, I would instantly use these two very safe and well proven methods to do so. I have indeed become well versed in the use of both techniques over the years. These both have saved my ass on a few occasions as a matter of fact.


All I can say in this matter, please do not try and improvise eq and use them for what they are not intended for without first thoroughly researching the potential dangers and consequences of doing so.
#1
<prussiks>

#2
<klemheist>


Keep It Simple & Standardized!
Can you help me understand the difference in application between a klemheist and a prussik? The klemheist seems easier to do one-handed (for me) so I'm wondering if there's a reason I should worry about using it?
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