SummitPost.org

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:27 am**

mrchad9 wrote:I was hiking out from the White Mountain area north of Tioga Pass Saturday...

Ahh, what White Mtn area north of TP?

The only White Mtn area anywhere near TP is a good 40+ miles due east on 120 past Benton or 60+ miles southwest down 395 past Big Pine and then up 168.

I live smack dab right in between the two actually and can see them both from my back door.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:16 am**

The Chief wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:I was hiking out from the White Mountain area north of Tioga Pass Saturday...

Ahh, what White Mtn area north of TP?

The only White Mtn area anywhere near TP is a good 40+ miles due east on 120 past Benton or 60+ miles southwest down 395 past Big Pine and then up 168.

I live smack dab right in between the two actually and can see them both from my back door.

Not White Mountain Peak, not sure the other you refer to. This one 4 miles from TP next to Mt Conness:
http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock ... ntain.html

This one's not visible unless you drive a bit...

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:14 pm**

All these decades I thought that feature was just part of the Conness Ridge Line. And it even has an official name!

PS: Whoa Nelli sucks! Too pricey, long ass Yuppy lines and most of the the ingredients are frozen.

Next time, go where the Local's go for a real fresh homemade meal that is half the price and three times the quantity.

Guaranteed to bust your gut and not your wallet!

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:17 pm**

The Chief wrote:PS: Whoa Nelli sucks! Too pricey, long ass Yuppy lines and most of the the ingredients are frozen.

Next time, go where the Local's go for a real fresh homemade meal that is half the price and three times the quantity.

Guaranteed to bust your gut and not your wallet!

I'll try it, Whoa Nelli is decent when your rolling in for a burger and fries at 8:50 PM though. I definitely bypass it when they have all the commotion going, which is about anytime else.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:26 pm**

Whoa Nelli is just another Tourist Trap.....wine tasting.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:37 pm**

Gary Schenk wrote:Anybody going faster than me is an idiot, anyone going slower than me is a moron.

Exactly the thought pattern going on here! MY decisions are based on rational thought. Everyone thinking differently is being negligent.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:55 pm**

I definitely need RESCUE

each and every time after engorging myself at the MonoCone.

G-Damn, their freshly sliced 1/2 lb Double Pastrami Cheese Burger and Home Made Fries.......... WOW! You just can't get enough! All for $4.75.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:57 pm**

Bombchaser wrote:I think your missing the point on the proving experience aspect. These are just options for proving it. Persons who know you, track logs, climbing logs, certs, and whatever else help to prove experience. If you were hauled into court, these would be used. This site and everything on it, as well as this forum could be called to court. Pictures taken, with me standing on every summit I have ever been on would be called into court. So yes, everything can be used to prove experience. My gear could also be called into court. I have had to prove training and experience many times in my carrier field. It isn't rocket science.

Again, grasping for straws here. I can climb a 14,000 foot peak in running shoes if I choose. Just because a peak is 14,000 peak doesn't make it difficult. Mount Shasta is not a mountain you climb, caked in ice, in running shoes!!! A normal person under the same circumstances within the climbing community would not have done this, this is reckless!! UFSS climbing rangers, SAR personel, the local Sheriff, and climbing proffessionals in that area would also say this was not adequate gear. Common sense says you don't do something so foolish. A 14,000 peak in Utah is not the same as a 14,000 peak sitting near the Gulf of Alaska. A change in windflow can turn into a massive, localized storm on Shasta. Go on the internet and look up Lenticular Clouds on Shasta. This is a common occurance. This guy may have been able to make it up and back down in his running outfit, but had a lenticular set up he may have died from exposure. So basically he is going up there with the idea that if things get tough, then I will just call for help.

I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying that running shoes are appropriate. I'm not saying that they're not. I'm saying that it is not my business, or yours, to decide what is "required" gear. It is even worse if you let the courts or government decide what is required, or adequate, gear . If you do, you end up needing to have gear for the worse case scenario any time you want to go for a day hike (think 60 lb packs to go anywhere in the mountains.)

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:42 pm**

Gary Schenk wrote:
The Chief wrote:I definitely need RESCUE

each and every time after engorging myself at the MonoCone.

G-Damn, their freshly sliced 1/2 lb Double Pastrami Cheese Burger and Home Made Fries.......... WOW! You just can't get enough! All for $4.75.

Jeebus! I hope you're carrying a SPOT and are competently equipped when you assault the Cone. (That's a bib, extra napkins and baby wipes)

You have 911 on speed dial I hope?

I think you should also be required to carry a portable defibrillator for taking on that assault!

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:44 am**

Dingus Milktoast wrote:
But then again I am ok if my fellow citizens want to foot the bill. However, I am of the opinion that the contraction of governmental services in the US will continue for some years to come. Increasingly budgets are going to be trimmed, services examined.

To point - an article in the local paper today about local fire departments now billing those who cause accidents for their on-scene services. Not billing for ambulance services, but the actual accident site services - $400 for a Pumper truck, $25 to put traffic cones out.

While shrinking budgets may fuel a trend toward imposing charges for emergency services on individuals who cause the emergency, I think the trend will be narrow in scope and location such as in your fire department example above.

Ironically, I think that decreasing government dollars will actually work to keep the current system of not charging for search and rescue services in place in most jurisdictions. Under the prevailing system, rescuer discretion is a fundamental part of the institution of SAR. Thus, rescuers are free to use their judgment whether to initiate rescue, services to render, how to implement rescue, etc., without much consideration of legal consequences. The fear is that charging for services will create a legal duty to rescue and thus greatly diminish the broad discretion rescuers now exercise causing them to take risks they otherwise might not have taken and exposing them to expensive lawsuits.

I haven't done a comprehensive survey, but some states that have statutes allowing individuals to be charged for rescue services dictate narrow circumstances such as knowingly entering a "closed area" (California, Idaho) or intentionally disregarding a "warning or notice" (Hawaii). The broadest ones that I've heard of are an Oregon statute subjecting individuals to rescue charges if they failed to exercise "reasonable care" or if the persons involved violated a law, and a New Hampshire law targeting those who "recklessly or intentionally create situations requiring an emergency response."

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:58 am**

mconnell wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:Anybody going faster than me is an idiot, anyone going slower than me is a moron.

Exactly the thought pattern going on here! MY decisions are based on rational thought. Everyone thinking differently is being negligent.

Hey, hey!

According to George Carlin,
...anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

Also, never eat blue food.

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:29 am**

I broke my ankle in a fall on a Colorado 14er. I crawled over talus & trail back to my truck on a bloody knee.

Dislocated my shoulder when I fell skiing the U-Notch. Put my shoulder back into joint, hiked down to my camp, loaded a 100-pounds of ski and climbing gear into my pack, and walked out.

Now I carry a GPS-augmented personal locator beacon when I am on the ocean.

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:48 am**

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:I broke my ankle in a fall on a Colorado 14er. I crawled over talus & trail back to my truck on a bloody knee.

Dislocated my shoulder when I fell skiing the U-Notch. Put my shoulder back into joint, hiked down to my camp, loaded a 100-pounds of ski and climbing gear into my pack, and walked out.

Now I carry a GPS-augmented personal locator beacon when I am on the ocean.

That must have been some time ago. Keep that beacon handy. Now you get airlifted out for a sunburn.

SummitPost.org

Rescue on Mount Shasta