SummitPost.org

Here is another example of people that should not be on big mountains. Climbing / hiking way above their level of experience. This is happening a lot lately. People head out without the proper gear, proper experience, and not checking or having real working knowledge of weather conditions. There is the attitude of just bring a cell phone and if things get tough then I will just call for help.

LINK:

http://www.ktvz.com/news/24381578/detail.html

I really hate it when "journalists" don't bother to look at a map.

Paragraph 2: "stranded... just below Prouty Glacier"

Paragraph 4: "The three became stranded in an area known as Hodge Crest, in an area between Prouty and Lewis glaciers."

Paragraph 5: "unable to cross the ice field leading to the climbers’ trail"

(Paragraph 3: "had started up the Green Lakes trail around 10 a.m" (and called for help at 6 PM)

(Paragraphs 6 and 7: "SAR ... responded to the Devils Lake Trailhead... ascended several trails... finally located [the hikers] around 1 a.m.)

My best guess is that paragraph 2 is just plain wrong, and that the party took the Green Lakes variation on the south ridge route but somehow wound up on the northeast side of the Lewis Glacier. From there they could see the usual south ridge route but might hesitate to cross Lewis Glacier to reach it, especially since there's usually a moat on the edge of Lewis. I still don't understand why the SAR groups "ascended several trails" and spent the night in "various locations" if they had a GPS fix on the party; maybe they were hedging their bets in case the party decided on their own to move.

A climber was also rescued on Mt Hood
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99174774.html?tab=video

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38395424/lo ... rtland_or/

Probably the biggest item that the media is confused about and confuses others about is the term "climber" versus "hiker" versus "tourist".....which in the end, results in statements by people like O'Reilly (who of course has a huge audience) who are ill informed that we put an end to such silliness on our public lands.

It's the continued and frequent rescues like these that keep this in the spotlight and force people to want more regulation, fines, and fees imposed. There is a real atitude anymore in the hiking / climbing world that people can do whatever the hell they want. There is the atitude that people can get in way over their head and just call on their cell phone for help. These rescues of ill-prepared, ill-experienced people are becoming way to common, and it gives everyone else doing the right thing a bad name.

How is I can head deep into the Cascades in winter via snowshoes, solo, hauling 40 pounds of gear, in deep snow, for 20 miles, get caught in a blizzard, survive, and come back out? But these people head out, drive to within six miles of the South Sister, on a sunny, calm day, and can't make it back out? What am I missing here? This is called the difference between being prepared / experienced, and not. It makes a huge difference. I say bill these morons!!!

GO REI WEEKEND WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!

There is another thread going on right now on backcountry rescue insurance. I am a bit confused as to why you would need rescue insurance to cover the costs of something that is already free.

But I suppose it is a good business model for someone.

As usual we agree Bombchaser These hikers seem like they could use a dose of reality and might have learned one of life's lessons a bit better if left to find their own way down. I'm not even following why they couldn't just return they way they came.

Sometimes recusers need to JUST SAY NO. Yet another frivolous rescue in the Cascades.

Bombchaser wrote:It's the continued and frequent rescues like these that keep this in the spotlight and force people to want more regulation, fines, and fees imposed. There is a real atitude anymore in the hiking / climbing world that people can do whatever the hell they want. There is the atitude that people can get in way over their head and just call on their cell phone for help. These rescues of ill-prepared, ill-experienced people are becoming way to common, and it gives everyone else doing the right thing a bad name.

How is I can head deep into the Cascades in winter via snowshoes, solo, hauling 40 pounds of gear, in deep snow, for 20 miles, get caught in a blizzard, survive, and come back out? But these people head out, drive to within six miles of the South Sister, on a sunny, calm day, and can't make it back out? What am I missing here? This is called the difference between being prepared / experienced, and not. It makes a huge difference. I say bill these morons!!!

GO REI WEEKEND WARRIORS!!!!!!!!!

Don't take this personally because you make some fair points but you are generalizing. No one really goes out on a hike/climb thinking "I have a cell phone, SAR will come get me." I think the average person that goes out to hike or climb a given trail or peak is basically prepared. The mountains do not only belong to you SUPER studs and your mountain arogance. Actually, I would bet (promise) that a lot more "Mountain men" have been rescued (by SAR) and killed than the average REI Weekend Worrior. I say more power the REI Warrior! Just make sure you plan.

Nothing against you Bombchaser but we all can't live in the mountains and it doesn't make us any less of an outdoors person.

Tonka wrote:I think the average person that goes out to hike or climb a given trail or peak is basically prepared.

Reading the article, do you think Sharla and her sons are the average people out for a hike, or a below-average group who seemingly left their competence back at the trailhead? The average person shouldn't need a rescue in that situation, prepared or not, should they?

Tonka wrote:No one really goes out on a hike/climb thinking "I have a cell phone, SAR will come get me."

Interested in your perspective in why this family of three decided to carry their cell phone half-way up South Sister. To order pizza on the way down, or to call for SAR should they decide to do so?

mrchad9 wrote:

Tonka wrote:I think the average person that goes out to hike or climb a given trail or peak is basically prepared.

Reading the article, do you think Sharla and her sons are the average people out for a hike, or a below-average group who seemingly left their competence back at the trailhead? The average person shouldn't need a rescue in that situation, prepared or not, should they?

Tonka wrote:No one really goes out on a hike/climb thinking "I have a cell phone, SAR will come get me."

Interested in your perspective in why this family of three decided to carry their cell phone half-way up South Sister. To order pizza on the way down, or to call for SAR should they decide to do so?

I don't think they were the norm. We just had a police rescue here in a suburb of Minneapolis where a mom and her son got lost on mountain bike trails in like a 300 acre park (how). I get it. I may not spend the amount of time on mountain trails as most of you but I get out there and most people I run into seem to be prepared. I ask you, Do you think that the average person that plans a hike or climb is prepared?

Well, it would be nice to have a pizza waiting

Tonka wrote:

mrchad9 wrote:

Tonka wrote:I think the average person that goes out to hike or climb a given trail or peak is basically prepared.

Reading the article, do you think Sharla and her sons are the average people out for a hike, or a below-average group who seemingly left their competence back at the trailhead? The average person shouldn't need a rescue in that situation, prepared or not, should they?

Tonka wrote:No one really goes out on a hike/climb thinking "I have a cell phone, SAR will come get me."

Interested in your perspective in why this family of three decided to carry their cell phone half-way up South Sister. To order pizza on the way down, or to call for SAR should they decide to do so?

I don't think they were the norm. We just had a police rescue here in a suburb of Minneapolis where a mom and her son got lost on mountain bike trails in like a 300 acre park (how). I get it. I may not spend the amount of time on mountain trails as most of you but I get out there and most people I run into seem to be prepared. I ask you, Do you think that the average person that plans a hike or climb is prepared?

Well, it would be nice to have a pizza waiting

I'm not sure if the average person out for a hike is prepared or not. Perhaps more than 50% are- so that is one way to look at it. But I believe there is a significant portion that is not. I think my point is though, that even if we say 10-20% of folks are completely incompetent and unprepared, and 1% of those ends up in a situation like this, then that leads to one of these frivolous rescues for 0.1% of folks. Any is too many.

These folks didn't seem to be in a life threatening situation, or in a medical emergency. I would much rather see the SAR organization making the call use some judgement and say "Well, we think you'll be fine until tomorrow on your own. Call us back when it is life threatening, or we can come now but you'll have to pay the bills." I'm not for folks having to pay to be rescued when they need it, but folks could stand to learn a few lessons and be uncomfortable for a night sometimes too. Better to hold off until it is needed.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:Consider the classic local common interest story, fire department rescues cat out of tree. In a 25 seconds 'slow news night' spot the news dept will

1. Mispronounce the neighborhood name
2. Get the cat's owner's name wrong
3. Misidentify the type of fire truck dispatched
4. Completely ignore anything the fire dept. have to say
5. Focus on the back ground story of the cat (climber)
6. Wrap it all up in time for commercial.

Us? We just see a news blurb about a cat in a tree. Believe it or not, *most* people do not complain about the cost of dispatching the fire department to rescue a stranded kitty... OR climber, for that matter.

To most people there is almost no difference in the two stories. Just someone else stranded somewhere. If there is a buzz about it even more folks will stop and stare, just to catch the vibe of the buzz itself.

But most folks will just walk on by - with nary a comment or care.

So don't feel so self conscious next time you read a news butcher story about climbers - no one cares anyway. You're just a cat in a tree.

DMT

^^^This iz korrekt (probly).

However, if the cat falls out of the tree and is killed, there will be 359 comments posted to the online news report, saying that the cat was crazy to be up in the tree in the first place, that the cat had a death wish, that the fire department has NO BUSINESS rescuing cats that go up trees unprepared, that "my taxes" shouldn't be used to rescue such adredaline junkies as cats who climb trees, etc., etc., etc.

The noisier the internet gets, the more people turn down the gain. Too bad we don't have Dolby.