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I was hoping for some solid advice and suggestions as to where would be ideal areas within Germany and Austria that would cover both climbing (alpine and/or sport climbing) and a variety of vineyards for wine tasting. Deb and I are planning a 2 week trip over to Germany around June. We're not huge "city people" but rather enjoy the country side and villages. Ideally, the Barvaria region or along the Rhine seems fitting for us. We hope to climb in the Alps and other spots but still would like to enjoy German/Austrian culture......and, of course, German bier!! We are not interested in Oktoberfest, which we think will be a pricey time to travel and way too many people. All suggestions are welcome!!

You may want to contact member 'mvs'. He lives in Germany and I am sure can give you the beta.

Sounds like you would like the "black forest" area (schwarzwald). A wooded mountain range in Baden-Württemberg, southwestern Germany. It is bordered by the Rhine valley to the west and south. The highest peak is the Feldberg with an elevation of 1,493 metres.

As far as I know it's the best place in Germany for food and wine. And with more than 23,000 kilometers of signposted hiking trails, you'd have plenty of hiking possibilities. If you want something more quiet, I've heard good things about the Black Forest Trail (Westweg).

Looking at his profile pic, you want the Frankenjura.

Hmm, Dave, somehow climbing and wine drinking seem to exclude each other in Germany. Quite obviously as wine doesn't grow in the mountains. Let's make climbing the first priority:

1. Frankenjura: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=311566
2. Sächsische Schweiz: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=152091
3. Südpfalz: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=153677

All three are big areas with limestone or sandstone crags, all have wine areas nearby though 1 and 2 are sometimes said to produce sweet vinegar ... Deb knows 3 as she was stationed in Rammstein for a while and did a hike in the area. Wineries are about 30 miles to the east where the Rhine River Valley starts.

Rhine River: good wine but not much climbing. Mostly overcrowded small crags. Like here:
4: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=190514
5: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=152514
6: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=233670

4 is very small, 5 is big but probably not yet open in June/July (peregrines) and 6 tells you how desperate climbers along the Rhine River can get

Then there is Schwäbische Alb, further down south, also the Danube Valley. This is limestone climbing and can be interesting. Examples:

7: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=428193
8: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... _id=151242

Not much wine there but quite beautiful to look at. Crags can be quite crowded on fine days though.

Bavaria and Austria - huge on climbing but again not much wine - Austrian wineries are in the south-east where the Alps already run out. I think climbing wise the best place would be

9: http://www.summitpost.org/area/range/24 ... birge.html

Coming a close second:

10: http://www.summitpost.org/area/range/17 ... birge.html.

Both are in beer-country though

Personally I would choose 1, 3 or 9.

Bavaria, Bavaria, Bavaria, Bavaria, Bavaria, Bavaria.

Did I mention Bavaria?

Stay at the little village of Farchant just North of Garmisch-Partenkirchen. Easy access to loads of mountains plus fab local food, bier and wine.

It may even be the catalyst I need to get me travelling to Germany again. Just to call in and say hello for a day or two.

OK. Before Gangolf pulls me up. They don't actually grow wine in Bavaria. But they do sell it! And the local wheat biers are superb.

Dave Daly wrote:... that would cover both climbing (alpine and/or sport climbing) and a variety of vineyards for wine tasting.... All suggestions are welcome!!

normally the ones that like wine come from Germany to Italy ... the Dolomites and Veneto and Friuli can give you all you need (you could ask Radek for more info)

Bryan Benn wrote:... They don't actually grow wine in Bavaria.....

But they do! Fantastic white wines, especially, from the northwest of the state (Mainfranken). Although, thanks to global warming, the reds are getting better, too.

For alpine climbing it will have to be the alps, but for sports climbing the Frankenjura is best. Solid limestone crags, climbs of all difficulties, the harder stuff well protected. Unfortunately, they are all in beer country, not wine country which starts 60 km or so to the west. For wine tasting the area around Würzburg would be best, which is about one hours drive from the climbing. The area is nice for hiking, scenic villages and beautiful historic towns (e.g. Bamberg) as well.

The area around these crags has the worlds highest density in breweries. The town (jumble of villages, really...) where I am from used to have three for 6k people, unfortunately one closed down recently. But right next to the top climbing spots (e.g. Trubachtal) you still have some of the best beers available.

Christian

gabriele wrote:

Dave Daly wrote:... that would cover both climbing (alpine and/or sport climbing) and a variety of vineyards for wine tasting.... All suggestions are welcome!!

normally the ones that like wine come from Germany to Italy ... the Dolomites and Veneto and Friuli can give you all you need (you could ask Radek for more info)

Yes we do - and for a good reason: our red wines are not worth bothering about. As for the whites - I think we could compete ...

But no such place as the Dolomites for sure ...

There is a lot of rock climbing and castle ruins exploration available in the Sud-Pfalz, which also happens to be on the southern end of the German Wine Road (Deutsche Wein Strasse). The wine road runs north-south along the west side of the Rhine River valley and is right on the edge of the Pfalzerwald, which is the largest unbroken stretch of forest in Germany.

There aren't any big peaks in the Pfalzerwald, but it is a beautiful forest. In the southern part (Sud-Pfalz), there are many good crags for climbing. There is a good climbing guide (in German) available at local outdoor stores.

The area between Bad Durkheim and Annweiler has an abundance of vineyards, castles and crags. I highly recommend it. The wines in the region are very good, inexpensive and completely acceptable if you are not a wine snob. Nothing like a nice dry wein-schorle (white wine and sparkling mineral water) after a long day of hiking, climbing and castle hunting!

THANKS SO MUCH!! Very good stuff to review. Gangolf, #9 look amazing! We don't mind roaming a bit.....just not all over the country.

Someone said why not visit France.......

Been there, done that. And France is.....well, France.

Go to Frankenjura. You can try some of the excellent "Frankonian wine" in the area around Würzburg, which is 1-2 hours from all the crags. Very good, traditional wineyards plus some of the best limestone sports climbing worldwide. Contact me if you want to know more.

Dave Daly wrote:THANKS SO MUCH!! Very good stuff to review. Gangolf, #9 look amazing! We don't mind roaming a bit.....just not all over the country.

Someone said why not visit France.......

Been there, done that. And France is.....well, France.

As you mentioned above, if you come down the Rhine you can take in a bit of French wine. The wine in sw Germany is good - and a short spring to the Berner Oberland via Basle too.
Bavaria is beer! Good beer too!
If you´re down in Bavaria then you´ve the eastern alps which are wonderful. Someone mentioned mvs, yes he´s here in Munich and probably needs a US accent or two every now and again.
If you´d like to meet up with a wishy washy euro lib I´m here too.
Enjoy it anyway.

From a Austrian point of view:

Your criterias very much fit to South Tyrol. You have excellent vine and even more excellent alpine climbing. The Dolomites are definetly something you don't want to miss and you'll be enjoying a faboulous mix of Austrian and Italian culture.

If you need concrete infos, I'd be more than happy to help.

All the best,
Peter

goretz wrote:There is a lot of rock climbing and castle ruins exploration available in the Sud-Pfalz, which also happens to be on the southern end of the German Wine Road (Deutsche Wein Strasse). The wine road runs north-south along the west side of the Rhine River valley and is right on the edge of the Pfalzerwald, which is the largest unbroken stretch of forest in Germany.

There aren't any big peaks in the Pfalzerwald, but it is a beautiful forest. In the southern part (Sud-Pfalz), there are many good crags for climbing. There is a good climbing guide (in German) available at local outdoor stores.

The area between Bad Durkheim and Annweiler has an abundance of vineyards, castles and crags. I highly recommend it. The wines in the region are very good, inexpensive and completely acceptable if you are not a wine snob. Nothing like a nice dry wein-schorle (white wine and sparkling mineral water) after a long day of hiking, climbing and castle hunting!

This area I have been to and although splendid scenery and wine, it is lacking in the adrenaline department. HA! And we are wine snobs. Do love Mosel!