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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:35 pm
by Bob Sihler
mconnell wrote:
FortMental wrote:
Granting license does not give up ownership
Big deal, under such terms, ownership is moot, like any "ownership" of materials posted on line to any site not your own. Regardless, we'd be wiser to think of our posted materials as being freely available (public domain) for the collaborative purpose of building an excellent aggregate/reference site for all to use for free. Enough of this self-important baloney.

I'm all for attribution, but the manners police (at Summitpost) have to draw the line at having to "ask for permission".


It's not about manners. Its about legal liability.

Under the SP terms, SP owners can use it for SP purposes. That doesn't give any rights to anyone else, including SP members.


Exactly, and that's perfectly clear from that section. This is also in the FAQ section:

2.17 Can I submit photos to SummitPost that I didn't take myself?

Not without the permission of the person who took the photo. Doing so otherwise would violate copyright law. SummitPost takes copyrights seriously. Posting material in violation of copyright law may be grounds for deletion of your submission and of your user account. Also, the copyright holder may prosecute you in court.

It is OK to post images whose copyright has expired, or images that are not subject to copyright (such as images made by the US Federal Government), or images which you have obtained the photographer's permission to post (be sure to state this in your caption text).

Take time to review SummitPost's Terms of Service.


2.18 If I submit my photos or writing to SummitPost, am I giving up my copyright to them?

No. You are authorizing SummitPost to display them on the SummitPost website, but posting to SummitPost does NOT give anyone permission to copy your works from SummitPost. Note, however that you are giving up the right to prevent modifications of your work: you are agreeing to SummitPost's policy of maintaining the site. You are giving the maintainer of a SummitPost page a license to make changes to your text as he/she sees fit, and to move your photos from one section of the page to another. You agree that someone else may someday become the maintainer of page(s) you create. SP management may also alter any text that may legally endanger SP.

SummitPost is a collaborative project, and pages are frequently the responsibility of more than one user. By granting permissions to another user, you allow that user to alter your text and images.


And legal issues aside, it's about ethics. I know this is the Internet age, but one still should not take without asking unless it is expressly in the public domain, as are USFS photos (as stated in the FAQ).

This is simple courtesy and integrity, something taught in grade school. It's not about being self-important.

I would never build a page using others' pictures exclusively. I have used others' photos on my pages, but only after they added or I asked. But that's not even the point here.

The issue is copying others' photos without permission and posting them through your own profile.

Attribution is not enough; we are not doing research papers here. This site is supposed to be about firsthand information, photos and otherwise.

There's no way we can police the Internet for people copying our submissions and posting them elsewhere, but we can show our fellow members here some respect and courtesy.

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By the way, someone mentioned earlier that the member in question had received permission to pull others' photos and post them here. That is not completely true. The person who started this thread is one such person who had his picture(s) copied and posted here, and he obviously had not given consent. Even though there was attribution, he was not happy about it, and I can't blame him.

Re: When in doubt...

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:45 am
by RyanS
PeakAgitation wrote:The 15 year old SP'er obtained permission from the owner of the photograph and had apparently made that clear. He likely read and appears to have complied with SP section 2.17.


That's patently incorrect. While the member asked me to post his links on the 13ers page that Gareth and I maintain, he's not once asked permission of me or John Kirk and I presume this is also the case w/ SarahT.

Another thing that bothers me is the small image size of pics on John's site. While this is fine for John's site, they're really not up to snuff on SP. I have copies of the pics in question at much higher resolutions, and would gladly share them if I were asked.

EDIT: Just saw that Bob Sihler addressed this point, but I'll leave my post intact.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:23 pm
by Bob Sihler
FortMental wrote:
This is simple courtesy and integrity, something taught in grade school. It's not about being self-important.


Actually, it is, kind of. If photos were posted here with some manner of a Creative Commons License, we wouldn't have to sit around waiting for permission from the almighty owner to use a photo that could improve an informational page. In fact, if Wikipedia can do it.... Hell, so can I!


Well, we disagree. I can tell you speaking for myself that although I appreciate being asked, I don't mind if someone uses my picture without telling me first. What I would mind is, as this thread is about, taking someone else's picture and posting it through your own profile, attributed or not. You may think there's no difference, but I think there's a big one.

Edit: As far as the Wiki idea goes, I don't see SP having any trouble finding people who can contribute their own photos and information. The Additions and Corrections feature allows people to alert page maintainers of changes or other important information, and people can ask the Elves for permission to adopt abandoned pages.

If this were a Wiki-style site, imagine the battles over who displays what pictures where, whether a route is Class 3 or 4, etc. I don't think it would work well. I've heard things sometimes get intense and nasty on Wikipedia, and we don't need that here.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:40 am
by RyanS
For the record, I've now received an apology. I'm going to work with Justin to get higher-res pics posted.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:53 am
by RyanS
PeakAgitation: I posted this thread first. I was going for the public shaming route (with the ancillary benefit of attracting SP Elf attention), but that was of course before I realized Justin's age.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:58 am
by mattpayne11
I think asking for permission before posting the photo makes the most sense.