Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:11 pm
M, you guys were here that weekend.
Climbing, hiking, mountaineering forum
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Mountain Impulse wrote:Guyzo wrote:
I don't know about you folks but the weakness/flaw in this rap system is this: Rapelling with a single line system.
The climber was using a "cinch" - this is much like the Grigri, a devise made for the purpose of belaying not rappelling.
Looking at the whole set up it just looks bogus.
He died because they left off the biner and the knot pulled through the ring.
Simple as that.
The solution is simple, stop using belay devices as rapelling rigs and rap down on both lines.
I was hoping Todd Skinners death would have had a strong influence on the climbing public to stop using these for rappelling.
Sad, truly sad.
Guyzo,
I wouldn't use a Cinch for rappelling either. But apparently the use of that device didn't contribute to the accident, it was as you say the knot block pulling thru the rap ring. A 'biner would have made the difference. Plus, I'm not clear whether his knot block was a figure8 on a bight or whether he was using the EDK with which he tied the two lines together as his block.
I do disagree that a single strand rap can't be safe. For instance, a clove hitch on a locking biner set against a rapide is not ever going to pull thru.
Re Todd Skinner-as I recall it was his belay loop that broke that caused his fall and not his anchor rigging.
Too bad it takes a death to throw up reminders to check and double check your system.
Augie
I don't know if you have ever used one of these for rapelling. I have and it's scary because to rap down.... you pull the lever back and you freefall intill you release the lever and you stop instantly. BAM right on the anchor!!!!!!!!!!
Craig Peer wrote:Your comment on carabiner brake rappels is incorrect too - they are perfectly safe when done correctly - I used them for many years, and wouldn't hesitate to use one now. Everyone should know how to do one in case they drop thier ATC !!
The account from the partner was very well written and detailed the cause very well, I would recommend everyone read it, but I dare not link it here...
Misha wrote:Hold on... Is this the Brian I am thinking of!?
Craig Peer wrote:The account from the partner was very well written and detailed the cause very well, I would recommend everyone read it, but I dare not link it here...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... 065&tn=140
See Japhy's post.
x15x15 wrote:Misha wrote:Hold on... Is this the Brian I am thinking of!?
if its the same brian i thought of, i know it is not. i know you have climbed with the brian i know from sierra madre.
RIP Brian.
Craig Peer wrote:I don't know if you have ever used one of these for rapelling. I have and it's scary because to rap down.... you pull the lever back and you freefall intill you release the lever and you stop instantly. BAM right on the anchor!!!!!!!!!!
That's not necessarily true - you can get a smooth rope feed and stop, although it is tricky and takes practice. However, relying on a knot jammed against a rappel ring ( without that backup carabiner ) was the cause of the accident - not the use of a Cinch. And was an admitted mistake ( see the Supertopo thread ).
Your comment on carabiner brake rappels is incorrect too - they are perfectly safe when done correctly - I used them for many years, and wouldn't hesitate to use one now. Everyone should know how to do one in case they drop thier ATC !!
Guyzo wrote:
I don't like to use stuff that is ..... "tricky and takes practice" to use.
Misha wrote:x15x15 wrote:Misha wrote:Hold on... Is this the Brian I am thinking of!?
if its the same brian i thought of, i know it is not. i know you have climbed with the brian i know from sierra madre.
RIP Brian.
Unfortunately, it is the same Brian I thought of. We hung out at Lovers Leap over Labor Day in 2007. It just went from tragic to flat out awful
We were topping out on Selaginella, about half a mile away from Serenity Crack when this accident happened