SummitPost.org

Hyadventure wrote:Yes, I had a long talk with the gent in charge of the area back in 04. He was friendly (at the time) but not interested in any compromise.

If you're familiar with traditional/illegal trail you'd know that it has ZERO impact on the 2 creeks that run through the forbidden section 33. Without going into great detail, it very hard if not near impossible to access either the Snow Creek drainage of the Fall Creek drainage from the trail within section 33. Whereas the new legal route crosses Fall Creek outside (above) of the forbidden zone, directly impacting water quality. If the DWA is really interested in protecting water quality working with the climbing community is in there best interest.

Excellent post, I agree. As long as people can legally walk ABOVE their property, the doo doo will obey the laws of gravity.

You know, all those sledders and snow players at the top of the tram, some of whom must pee and spit in the snow, not to mention leave a lot of garbage, well, it does find its way downhill as well, the seasonal creek at the Tram does flow down to P.S.

Jim Foote, manager of the Santa Rosa National Monument wants to have signs for the Pacific Crest Trail at Snowcreek Village if I am understanding this correctly. Here is the link
http://www.hik3r.com/stories/message-fr ... -monument/

Hyadventure wrote:Yes, I had a long talk with the gent in charge of the area back in 04. He was friendly (at the time) but not interested in any compromise.

The Location Caretaker IS NOT the point of contact in which ACCESS discussions should be held with. He just watches the gate and has absolutely no positional authority to make any policy changes for the DWA.

The folks that need to be contacted are the individuals that give the Caretaker his marching orders and are the area Mgers.

I just got off the phone with a senior DWA representative and they advised me that the first place to start would be with the DWA Board of Directors and they can be contacted in person HERE at 8AM on the 19th of April. The monthly meeting is open to the public and any agenda items such as this one, will be heard and then taken up on an official capacity for review and action.

I highly recommend that if you are serious enough about this issue, you take off from work, dress up nicely, take a chill pill, drive to Palm Springs on the 19th of April, attend that meeting and present your case in a respectful and courteous manner. If you are not willing to do so, then I highly recommend that you stfu and respect the access closures that are in place.

Who said i talked with the care taker??? I said the "gent in charge" i.e. the Manager. It was the same manager who headed-up last years ambush.

Starting with the managers boss's, the BoD, will get you some attention, but you'll put the managers of the defensive. That's a poor start in my experience. I wouldn't bother them until after the manager tells you to pound sand. Regardless, I think you need a organization to take the lead if you want to be taken seriously. Access fund? Sierra Club?

Hyadventure wrote:Who said i talked with the care taker??? I said the "gent in charge" i.e. the Manager. It was the same manager who headed-up last years ambush.

Starting with the managers boss's, the BoD, will get you some attention, but you'll put the managers of the defensive. That's a poor start in my experience. I wouldn't bother them until after the manager tells you to pound sand. Regardless, I think you need a organization to take the lead if you want to be taken seriously. Access fund? Sierra Club?

And what ACCESS ISSUES experience do you have?

Like I posted HYDRA, I just spoke to a senior individual at the DWA in Palm Springs and that is where he told me to direct this issue. Now, do as you want as it appears you are highly experienced with large scale ACCESS issues such as this one. Also appears that your experience has done a shitload of good for the past six or so years.

PS: According to the rep I just spoke with, the individual/area 33 Mger you cite has absolutely NO AUTHORITY to do anything in granting any access. NONE! But by all means, continue with what you are doing. Appears to be working just dandy.

PSPS: Be prepared to be ambushed again this season. But this time by the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Deputies that will immediately respond to any call from the Area Mger regarding any potential trespassers. For what it is worth, any public watershed operated by a private entity is now deemed part of the Federal natural resources and trespassing on the posted area can and may be considered a violation of the Home Land Sec Act and a Federal Offense. That too comes from the mouth of the senior DWA rep I just had a 20 minute discussion with.

To be taken seriously all you need is present your case and be prepared for a long ass wait. Ya gotta be persistent and keep on em and on em and on em.

Took me 3 and half years of persistent action to finally get the 32 year closure on Williamson and Baxter opened up.

The Chief wrote:

Hyadventure wrote:Who said i talked with the care taker??? I said the "gent in charge" i.e. the Manager. It was the same manager who headed-up last years ambush.

Starting with the managers boss's, the BoD, will get you some attention, but you'll put the managers of the defensive. That's a poor start in my experience. I wouldn't bother them until after the manager tells you to pound sand. Regardless, I think you need a organization to take the lead if you want to be taken seriously. Access fund? Sierra Club?

And what ACCESS ISSUES experience do you have?

Like I posted HYDRA, I just spoke to a senior individual at the DWA in Palm Springs and that is where he told me to direct this issue. Now, do as you want as it appears you are highly experienced with large scale ACCESS issues such as this one. Also appears that your experience has done a shitload of good for the past six or so years.

PS: According to the rep I just spoke with, the individual/area 33 Mger you cite has absolutely NO AUTHORITY to do anything in granting any access. NONE! But by all means, continue with what you are doing. Appears to be working just dandy.

PSPS: Be prepared to be ambushed again this season. But this time by the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Deputies that will immediately respond to any call from the Area Mger regarding any potential trespassers. For what it is worth, any public watershed operated by a private entity is now deemed part of the Federal natural resources and trespassing on the posted area can and may be considered a violation of the Home Land Sec Act and a Federal Offense. That too comes from the mouth of the senior DWA rep I just had a 20 minute discussion with.

The Chief at his best.

I think you are the perfect man for this job. What do you say about coming down to Palm Springs and represent the hikers? I think your extensive knowledge of large scale access and unmistakable charm could prove to be the difference in this ongoing issue.

Sorry. No can do.

The Williamson/Baxter battle burned me out big time. Took up well over 40 days over a span of 3 and half years of my life.


Besides, I am going fishing. No access issues on any water way within the continental US of A!

Well thank god they won't call the local sheriff, Riverside County. It'll take the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Deputies hours to get there.

Hyadventure wrote:Well thank god they won't call the local sheriff, Riverside County. It'll take the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Deputies hours to get there.

Good catch. Got San Bernadino Sheriff on the brain from issues at J-Tree last month.

Actually, it will be either the Palm Springs PD or the Riverside County Sheriff. Just confirmed that with the PSPD. They both have been made aware of the trespassing situ by the DWA earlier this year.

Regardless, the DWA will not be messing around this year.

willytinawin wrote:You know, all those sledders and snow players at the top of the tram, some of whom must pee and spit in the snow, not to mention leave a lot of garbage, well, it does find its way downhill as well, the seasonal creek at the Tram does flow down to P.S.

Everything around the tram flows east down to Palm Springs, out of the DWA watershed on the north side. The crest between Fuller Ridge, across the San Jacinto summit, and to the tram acts as the watershed boundary. So its pretty much just PCTers and trespassers that are doing the human impact in the watershed.

One thing that I have been curious about since last year is how the DWA obtained home mailing addresses for the owners of vehicles who were notified of alleged trespassing violations. Does the DWA have the access to Department of Motor Vehicles records or the right to access such private records as a public agency?

If not, perhaps they asked and received the information from the County Sheriff's Department. I left wondering what right the DWA has to obtain this information for the purpose it used it for.

if you own a car, it must be registered. finding an address is quite simple, and not too expensive. you have the right to be anonymous, but you better be a hermit. public records are public records. For just a small fee, I can find any registered owners' address too, just need a license plate number...

this is still so stupid that this is an issue. and it is unfuckingbelievable that people think the private property owners need to do anything about it. kind of weird actually...

x15x15 wrote:if you own a car, it must be registered. finding an address is quite simple, and not too expensive. you have the right to be anonymous, but you better be a hermit. public records are public records. For just a small fee, I can find any registered owners' address too, just need a license plate number...

this is still so stupid that this is an issue. and it is unfuckingbelievable that people think the private property owners need to do anything about it. kind of weird actually...

Not weird atal. It is the age of the "entitled" where many believe that they are indeed entitled to do as they wish, regardless of the rights of others. Who gives a shit if it is PP. The owners of that said property owe it to us to succumb to our access needs. It is their responsibility to do so and not ours to respect their rights. We are climbers by god.

This prevailing arrogance on the part of the climbing community is going to get you absolutely no where. It is the climbers that need to change their self-righteous attitudes, not the DWA. Until ya'll get that and start acting on it, this will get far worse way before anything gets better, for ya'll. Not the DWA.

lefty wrote: Does the DWA have the access to Department of Motor Vehicles records or the right to access such private records as a public agency?

If not, perhaps they asked and received the information from the County Sheriff's Department.

Bingo! In other words, the RCSD will enforce the law and the rights of the LO.

Note: The Snow Creek route page has been changed in an effort to respect the DWA's private property.

Sam Page wrote:Note: The Snow Creek route page has been changed in an effort to respect the DWA's private property.

Thats a good start.