SummitPost.org

Posted: **Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:05 am**

REI has a 100% money back guarantee - go buy a sweet setup and return it when you're done, some city-slicker gearhead will pop like 5 boners at the annual gear sale because of you.

Posted: **Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:14 am**

jareds wrote:REI has a 100% money back guarantee - go buy a sweet setup and return it when you're done, some city-slicker gearhead will pop like 5 boners at the annual gear sale because of you.

Yes, the most exciting part of hiking is obtaining the best gear!

Langley was my first, and somehow still my only CA 14er (too much camping and hiking with two little kids I guess). The first attempt, I camped at the trailhead, started early and did not have problems with altitude. However, I got confused trying to find Old Army Pass with snow and probably only got about as high as the pass where I did scramble around. When I returned in early September (normal snow year) with directions/map better researched, I stayed in Bishop the night before, and made the summit via Old Army Pass, but got bad altitiude sickness once I reached the top of the pass and struggled.

To sum up what I learned: Do start early to avoid sun/heat and to allow for going slower than expected. Consider sleeping at the trailhead if you can afford decent gear to sleep in, but more importantly, take it slow and easy on the hike no matter where you slept the night before. Gain altitiude slowly and keep your heart rate down by not racing through the easier/lower portions of the hike and the hike up the pass. It takes more than a night to acclimate to altitude and some don't sleep well at first. Stay hydrated before and during the hike by carrying plenty of fluid and/or treating water from the lakes before heading up the pass. New Army Pass is easier to stay on route to and safer to hike up than Old Army Pass when there is still snow.

Have fun!'

Edit: Also based on the description you gave of time taken for a hike at lower elevation, bring a light or have a turn around time in case the altitude slows you down. Don't be stupid like me...be willing to turn around if AMS symptoms get bad. You can come back when better acclimated.

Posted: **Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:04 pm**

jareds wrote:REI has a 100% money back guarantee - go buy a sweet setup and return it when you're done, some city-slicker gearhead will pop like 5 boners at the annual gear sale because of you.

Keep the receipts if you try that tack, unless you are a member (in which case the purchase is tracked). And if you are a member, remember that you are part-owner, and get a dividend based on profitability.

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:17 pm**

I have heard the New Army trail is safer but longer to hike up the mountain. Is it more scenic than old army trail or less ?
Do I see any lakes if I hike up the new Army trail ?

Thanks

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:30 pm**

My two cents....Old Army Pass is better on every level than New Army Pass. More scenic...more direct....actually feels like climbing as opposed to walking...great for newbies getting a sense of the next step...plus makes for fantastic photos in that lake filled valley....I have travelled up both trails and whole-heartedly endorse Old Army Pass....don't buy the claims that you may read that it isn't maintained and can be hard to find...the use trail is obvious....if you can't stay on that, there may be other problems...

Posted: **Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:34 pm**

ashbal wrote:I have heard the New Army trail is safer but longer to hike up the mountain. Is it more scenic than old army trail or less ?
Do I see any lakes if I hike up the new Army trail ?

Thanks

YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP on the Lakes from NAP!

As far as longer, maybe 15 minutes more from the crest and that is all downhill heading up to the Summit and another 25 or minutes uphill on the return leg.

**Note: There have been several incidents resulting in major injuries and fatalities in the past six years on Old Army Pass due to inexperienced folks taking the big slide and impacting boulders during their out of control slide.**

Last Saturday looking Southeast from just below New Army Pass:

Looking up at and just below New Army Pass:

Looking up at Langley from New Army Pass (Old Army Pass crest can be seen on the middle right):

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:56 pm**

When a friend and I did Langley two years ago, we considered the same choice: Old Army Pass or New Army Pass. About ten days before our trip, someone slipped on OAP and died. That settled it for us (we did not consider ourselves all that experienced). We found the New Army Pass trail plenty scenic with, as the Chief's first photo shows, a number of lakes alongside. We did Langley as an overnight, camped by one of the lakes, and thoroughly enjoyed the hike.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:13 pm**

Is New Army pass dangerous in terms of exposure? Is there any scrambling required near the top? Is the trail/route up the face of New Army Pass itself easy to follow? Thanks!

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:36 pm**

I hiked Langley in June 2008. As I set camp in the area around the lakes, I noticed a helicopter flying around OAP. Sure enough, someone slipped and fell. I don't recall if they were injured or died.

The trail up New Army Pass is easy to follow. The pass can develop a cornice which may require some effort to get over (at least it did for me). The exposure is not bad at all.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:39 pm**

I did Langley via New Army Pass in August 2009 -- by then, all the snow had melted off (by contrast, OAP reportedly still had some snow and ice). There was no scrambling needed, and no real exposure issues. Here's a picture heading up New Army Pass.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:34 am**

The big difference between OAP and NAP right now is that NAP is already clear of snow, but OAP is not (and may not be for another month, this being a record snow year). For now, NAP is a safer choice. Besides, when people tell you to take OAP, they assume that you'd be wearing waterproof shoes, pants, crampons, and carrying an ice axe. Just this gear alone will set you back $300 or more. If you're going to attempt the summit in regular hiking boots and pants, NAP is the only option.

The strategy described in the first post of this thread pretty much ensures that you will not get anywhere near Mount Langley. If you go with that, I forecast that you'll burn out and turn around less than two miles from the trailhead. If you're particularly iron-willed, you might make it as far as Cottonwood Lakes, but you won't have stamina to climb any further. You really want to spend at least 12 hours acclimatizing at the trailhead before you start hiking.

You can get a basic 20-40F sleeping bag at Walmart, it won't be as cozy as a $500 Mountain Hardwear sleeping bag, but it should get you through the night.

Getting up at 3 or even 4 seems early to me. It gets mighty cold up there, especially near the summit. I recall that I was at that campground in early September last year and temps dipped below freezing during the night. I would suggest to hit the road at sunrise, with the plan to summit around 2 PM when the air is warmest.

Be sure to bring plenty of water. In my experience, a gallon of Gatorade should about do it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:21 am**

ashbal wrote:I have done 20 miles Round trip and reached the summit which is 4000 feet high from sea level in about 12 hrs. It may or may not take 12 hrs for me in Mt Langley but if I start early may be around 4 at the trail head, we might come back around 4 in the evening and then we have a 6 hrs drive back to Sunnyvale,CA. Hence the early start.

I don't know how good of shape you're in (perhaps you're a professional runner or something) but I think your plan sounds pretty ambitious and a good recipe for a headache. You should at least sleep at the Cottonwood Lakes trailhead to acclimatize before you start your day hike.

I did Mt. Langley on July 4, 2010. We backpacked to Cottonwood Lake #2 (~11000ft), slept there, started hiking around 8 or 9, and probably got back down to camp at 4 or 5 in the afternoon pretty tired. You're talking about sleeping at Lone Pine (~4000ft), driving to the trailhead, doing a 20+ mile hike from 10,000ft to 14,000ft, and then driving back to Silcon Valley afterwards. Good luck with that!

Posted: **Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:32 am**

huntersthompson wrote:My two cents....Old Army Pass is better on every level than New Army Pass. More scenic...more direct....actually feels like climbing as opposed to walking...great for newbies getting a sense of the next step...plus makes for fantastic photos in that lake filled valley....I have travelled up both trails and whole-heartedly endorse Old Army Pass....don't buy the claims that you may read that it isn't maintained and can be hard to find...the use trail is obvious....if you can't stay on that, there may be other problems...

I agree with you in all particulars . . . except when there is still snow in Old Army Pass. Then it can be pretty dangerous.

If it wasn't early in the season with the possibility/certainty of snow in Old Army Pass, I don't think there would be much discussion about New Army Pass.

Posted: **Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:59 pm**

EasternSierra wrote:
ashbal wrote:I have done 20 miles Round trip and reached the summit which is 4000 feet high from sea level in about 12 hrs. It may or may not take 12 hrs for me in Mt Langley but if I start early may be around 4 at the trail head, we might come back around 4 in the evening and then we have a 6 hrs drive back to Sunnyvale,CA. Hence the early start.

I don't know how good of shape you're in (perhaps you're a professional runner or something) but I think your plan sounds pretty ambitious and a good recipe for a headache. You should at least sleep at the Cottonwood Lakes trailhead to acclimatize before you start your day hike.

I did Mt. Langley on July 4, 2010. We backpacked to Cottonwood Lake #2 (~11000ft), slept there, started hiking around 8 or 9, and probably got back down to camp at 4 or 5 in the afternoon pretty tired. You're talking about sleeping at Lone Pine (~4000ft), driving to the trailhead, doing a 20+ mile hike from 10,000ft to 14,000ft, and then driving back to Silcon Valley afterwards. Good luck with that!

i have done that, including the drive back. i am no runner, you just need to keep moving. true, i did middle palisade in a day before that, so i guess i was acclimatized.

Posted: **Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:28 pm**

EasternSierra wrote:
ashbal wrote:I have done 20 miles Round trip and reached the summit which is 4000 feet high from sea level in about 12 hrs. It may or may not take 12 hrs for me in Mt Langley but if I start early may be around 4 at the trail head, we might come back around 4 in the evening and then we have a 6 hrs drive back to Sunnyvale,CA. Hence the early start.

I don't know how good of shape you're in (perhaps you're a professional runner or something) but I think your plan sounds pretty ambitious and a good recipe for a headache. You should at least sleep at the Cottonwood Lakes trailhead to acclimatize before you start your day hike.

I did Mt. Langley on July 4, 2010. We backpacked to Cottonwood Lake #2 (~11000ft), slept there, started hiking around 8 or 9, and probably got back down to camp at 4 or 5 in the afternoon pretty tired. You're talking about sleeping at Lone Pine (~4000ft), driving to the trailhead, doing a 20+ mile hike from 10,000ft to 14,000ft, and then driving back to Silcon Valley afterwards. Good luck with that!

Not all that crazy... I once left Davis at 1PM, drove to Whitney Portal, dayhiked Whitney by moonlight, and then drove home by 9PM the following day. so that's roughly 700 miles of driving and 22 miles of hiking in 32 hours. Didn't feel great on the summit, but managed nonetheless. YMMV

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