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Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:48 am
by Skateboards2Scrapers
You are such a hardman. Unreal.

People will make mistakes but the important is what they do after.


Your life, do as you please. I won't be posting in the memorial thread when the warning signs are turned into spray and you are practically breaking your arm from patting yourself on the back so hard.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:22 am
by Vitaliy M.
And what I call experience are among things that Vitaliy avoids.


Yeah, I avoid things like jumping over crevasses with sketchy snow bridges when I am solo. Never did I think I NEED that to get experience. It is quite entertaining you do not see anything wrong with it still. If you want experience climbing out of crevasses, how about top roping ice climbs, instead of falling into an unknown crevasse. Where is your experience going to be when you fall in one you can't crawl out from? Cuz not all these crevasses are created equal.

For me "Climb Safe" is doing whatever one might be comfortable doing without getting in accident or being rescued.


Well, I guess you effed that up big time on your last trip.

Understandably you may be pissed off at the critique you received in the thread and are getting a bit defensive, but you brought it upon yourself by posting a TR, this thread, and a thread in BAMM. Need any more attention? : )

How can you be READY if you don't practice in such or similar situations? In which many people die because they thought they were READY. Do you know the purpose of drills?


Next trip I suggest you go up Avalanche Gulch after a big windy storm, solo. You need some experience getting out from under the avalanche next. Seems like you got the crevasse rescue drill covered. Expect you were not in control of that drill, were you?
Personally knowing that I can lead Wi4+ ice/aid climb, is a good enough for me to feel 'ready' to get out of a crevasse alone if my body allows me to. And if all limbs are broken than it doesn't really matter. BUT I will not put myself in such situation in the first place.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:03 pm
by WML
Image

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:45 pm
by simonov
This is the most satisfying dogpile thread in SP history.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:35 pm
by clmbr
Vitaliy M wrote:Personally knowing that I can lead Wi4+ ice/aid climb, is a good enough for me to feel 'ready' to get out of a crevasse alone if my body allows me to. And if all limbs are broken than it doesn't really matter.

So you need permission from your body? Bummer! And again, how would you know you are ready if you have never tried? I understand, Vertical Limit.

One of the different between you, Vitaliy, and me is that everybody on every forum knows what you have climbed and accomplished (probably you call your mama every 15 mins or so while in the mountains; I had a guy in my team like that once and his wife called sheriff because he lost the cell reception), but maybe no more than a few people know just a lit bit about my climbing experiences. And if I tell the story I tell to my friends and sometimes to a driver to keep him/her awake while we are getting there. And yes you beat me; I've never done AG below 4 hours but I did Shasta in less than 4 days. Does it count?


" wrote:BUT I will not put myself in such situation in the first place.

Yeah, yeah, that’s what all these dead people were saying.


" wrote:Next trip I suggest you go up Avalanche Gulch after a big windy storm, solo.

I did, I did and not just after but before and during and not only Avi.


Steve1215
You were one of the crazy adventurers. I know, I know, you were young and stupid back then. But at least you admitted.


Vitaliy M. wrote:Understandably you may be pissed off at the critique you received in the thread and are getting a bit defensive, but you brought it upon yourself by posting a TR, this thread, and a thread in BAMM. Need any more attention? : )

How would you even know I'm not making this up to get "some attention?" Follow your instinct.

I'm surprised, or maybe even disappointed, this thread is going so slow; perhaps, because I'm not dead. We have had more entertainment on this forum when someone has died. Well... But I want you to have fun. Please.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:08 pm
by Vitaliy M.
So you need permission from your body? Bummer! And again, how would you know you are ready if you have never tried? I understand, Vertical Limit.

One of the different between you, Vitaliy, and me is that everybody on every forum knows what you have climbed and accomplished (probably you call your mama every 15 mins or so while in the mountains; I had a guy in my team like that once and his wife called sheriff because he lost the cell reception), but maybe no more than a few people know just a lit bit about my climbing experiences. And if I tell the story I tell to my friends and sometimes to a driver to keep him/her awake while we are getting there.


During an unplanned crevasse fall your body can get severely injured. And without your limbs working you or I would not physically be able to climb out. It is not a skill you want to practice. Getting lowered into a crevasse and climbing out is practicing skills, falling in due to own incompetence=fucking up.

According to your piece you were there to do drills such as 'jumping over crevasses' and 'walking over sketchy snow bridges.' Both of these are not skills. It's something one does when you need to.

I do not keep anything I do in secret. I have no clue what your previous experience is, but currently you go up dog routes on Shasta and Whitney, while actively looking for other noob partners to do ridiculous trips like go to Helen lake and wait out a storm. Ridiculous. Not sure why you want to insult me in your response by comparing me to some cry baby, you have never climbed with me.

So to pose for this photo you had to put your camera on a timer and crawl back into that crevasse? LOL

Image

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:09 pm
by mrchad9
What was the objective of posting this report? It doesn't seem anything was learned here. Whenever an incident such as this occurs it is important to pick something up from it so that similar or worse situations don't happen again in the future. It doesn't look like that has happened.

Bottom line... if solo on a glacier at 11,000+ feet on a mountain it is not the appropriate time and place to be practicing these types of skills. No one here has any business being on this route without a partner and a rope available... ever (much less walking up to and jumping over crevasses and intentionally putting themselves in even more danger without any type of assistance available). Everything was not done correctly here.

Also it is NOT always possible to get yourself out of a crevasse. That comment was irresponsible and laughable. It is a good mentality to have once in a bad situation situation, but a dangerous and potentialy deadly one to have when approaching a route like this. And it is also flat out incorrect... you could very easily have gone down in that crevasse and had no mechanism to get out whatsoever.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:34 pm
by clmbr
Vitaliy M. wrote:...Not sure why you want to insult me in your response...

I don’t want to insult you or anyone else. I’ve always respected you as a climber. Ask our mutual friend. But after these responses and attempts to educate and attacking me like I am a novice to mountaineering I realized you have no real mountaineering experience but skills. Your experience is only from books and movies. So this is just my reaction or defense as you call it.

Also I rather feel like you (and perhaps a few others) try to insult me. My climbing style is mine which I have developed over years based on various experiences. You don’t have to (and I am not expecting anyone) to like it. But, please, do not try to enforce on me your way of climbing even if it is standardized. Mine works well for me.

" wrote:So to pose for this photo you had to put your camera on a timer and crawl back into that crevasse? LOL
Image

No, this is just a snapshot from the video (it’s online and less than 4 mins) and I set up camera only once because it was very safe.
I posted it in Shasta Conditions so less experienced people would understand what to expect. And now here you go:


Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:31 pm
by Vitaliy M.
clmbr wrote:I don’t want to insult you or anyone else. I’ve always respected you as a climber. Ask our mutual friend. But after these responses and attempts to educate and attacking me like I am a novice to mountaineering I realized you have no real mountaineering experience but skills. Your experience is only from books and movies. So this is just my reaction or defense as you call it.


Experience is earned through trips to different ranges, mountains, practicing/applying skills, under different conditions, etc etc. Unfortunately I did not get my experience from reading books, I did not even read half of what is in freedom of the hills (imagine that), I gained my skills by getting out and doing things. Sometimes I knew what I was doing, sometimes I didn't. But I usually took the criticism from others, especially when it is constructive. Maybe I was a bit sarcastic in my previous comments and I apologize for that, no one wants to be treated like a POS in a public forum. Practicing skills is improving yourself as a mountaineer. My experience is from doing lots of climbing every week and traveling to climb in US (California, Alaska, Utah, Nevada, Oregon, Montana, Washington), and Canada. I rock climb and ice climb. If in your opinion experience comes from hiking up to some point on Shasta in a white out solo, I have done that too. In this thread I am not trying to offend you, but giving advice- yes. You did not start this thread because you wanted people to ignore your TR, right? You started it so there is some kind of a discussion and to see what other climbers think about the situation in your TR, correct? Well seems like it is not only me who thinks practicing things like jumping over crevasses and crossing sketchy snow bridges is appropriate to do solo (IMO these two are not skills and should be avoided even when roped if possible). I believe it is perfectly fine to solo things (rock routes, snow routes, ice routes), but performing actions that put you at HIGH danger ALONE on a GLACIER is NOT appropriate while soloing. I do not understand why you believe it is normal. Yes, there are some idiots out there that can put you under more danger than you would have while alone, but that's why we do not climb with everyone out there/screen for good competent partners/trust only those who earn our trust.

clmbr wrote: But, please, do not try to enforce on me your way of climbing even if it is standardized. Mine works well for me.


According to your comment bellow it does not look like it works that well. We SHOULD NOT (although you can do whatever as you wish- freedom of the hills right. just don't start threads that encourage arguments/ideas brought up by others) be left out without a safety plan alone, especially knowing you could have been severely injured in a crevasse fall (that you did not see coming).

clmbr wrote:What matter is I did not see this coming, had no backup plan in case something goes wrong, did not even consider using the other ax, was overconfident. And I am ashamed of that. This was indeed a dangerous move.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 pm
by clmbr
Vitaliy M. wrote:...
I gained my skills by getting out and doing things. Sometimes I knew what I was doing, sometimes I didn't.

And that is the right spirit.

" wrote:...
Maybe I was a bit sarcastic in my previous comments and I apologize for that, no one wants to be treated like a POS in a public forum.

Fair enough.

clmbr wrote:What matter is I did not see this coming, had no backup plan in case something goes wrong, did not even consider using the other ax, was overconfident. And I am ashamed of that. This was indeed a dangerous move.

Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s why I wrote about it. I wrote about my mistake. My mistake was not jumping over a crevasse (as you see it), it could easily happen on one of the icy slopes, or anywhere else, but the fact I was not in my alert mode and did not anticipate the fall and jumped over insecurely. I know it is hard to comprehend and will not even try to explain anymore because we are in completely different dimensions. However, once it happened I regained my alert and put in the self defend mode and attempted self rescue. So 1) never lose your focus, especially in questionable situation, and 2) never give up once sh… happens. But most of you are distracted by the fact I was alone on the glacier and was jumping over the crevasse. Fair enough. But we would not have this story if I succeeded. It would not be any lesson to learn, as you say.

The glaciers conditions at the time of my trip were perfect, icy and no hidden traps; completely different than a year and two ago with soft snow and hidden crevasses. I repeat perfect! I did not want to say so to encourage those who have no or limited glacier traverse experience. I loved the fact that Hotlum exposed so many crags. It became pretty and interesting.

However, I discourage anyone from doing what I did (as they say, “don’t try this at home”). I don’t even recommend going there (that’s the reason of the movie and TR), especially if you are not sure what you are doing, roped or not roped. And I believe it has already worked on some people. So perhaps this was my small contribution in preventing some people from getting into a trouble.

Amen!

Please make some jokes now.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:56 pm
by mrchad9
If you had died in that crevasse those little black worms would have eaten you.

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:07 am
by MarkDidier
mrchad9 wrote:If you had died in that crevasse those little black worms would have eaten you.


Did someone mention worms...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSRAhebMb5Q[/youtube]

Hey, the OP asked for some jokes...

Re: A solo climber falls in a crevasse on Hotlum Glacier, Sh

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:29 am
by clmbr
MarkDidier wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:If you had died in that crevasse those little black worms would have eaten you.


Did someone mention worms...
...
Hey, the OP asked for some jokes...


Yes but the right worms are Ice Worms, they are my friends :D