SummitPost.org

MoapaPk wrote:That's the Camp 4.

I think that's the one I'd like to have. . .

Autoxfil wrote:

Daria wrote:It may come not as a surprise to people, but all those fancy approach shoes special materials and advanced technology is a marketing ploy to get your $$$$$. It is not about what shoe you wear, its all about your technique and skill. You can get regular good quality running shoes to do what you want them to do if you know what you're doing.

That's a rediculous statement. You can climb 5.10 in double plastics if you know what you're doing, but that doesn't make it sane.

Stegosaurus wrote: you really can't approach any wilderness climb safely and comfortably across talus and scree wearing a set of super-light running shoes - there's simply not enough reinforcement in the sole and rand.

Wrong. Any one of you suckers want to bet $500 that I can use these to dayhike Clarence King and Mt. Williamson??:





Fresh from thrashing around for 12 hours in Beveridge Canyon:





I'm sorta sick of all the distinctions and selections: approach shoes, running shoes, climbing shoes, hiking shoes, trail runners.....wtf??? Seriously, its headache inducing.

The camp four a tiny bit too bulky for my liking and its hard to find a size 11 for sale. The toe box is too boxy. Why can't someone just make the perfect shoe?

Daria wrote:The camp four a tiny bit too bulky for my liking and its hard to find a size 11 for sale. The toe box is too boxy. Why can't someone just make the perfect shoe?

We just don't have perfect feet!

Someone else mentioned the inov8 shoes, and they seem to be much lighter... and some have a sticky rubber. Alas, sticky rubber generally wears down faster than hard rubber. I'm going to give them a try.

The folks who pioneered a lot of the hard technical routes in the Sierra, in the 30s and 40s, used rubber-soled, canvas athletic shoes... back when ropes were made of hemp, and people gave standing hip belays. Plain soft rubber can be pretty sticky; just doesn't last long.

The Camp 4 toe is wide, but they are very stable. The lace-to-the-toe style actually cramps my toes a little too much. The soles are a little too flexible for crampons, and my biggest complaint is: they are hot, and my feet stink so badly that I'm embarrassed to have someone else in the car after a long day. It's one of the terrible gender inequalities we men must accept... we have stinkier feet.

These seem pretty smart:



I don't really know much about these shoes. But one thing I can't stand is shoe laces coming undone and having to re-tie them. Seems like these sportiva's do the trick. (feet might feel a little trapped, though)

Some shoelace materials are much better at keeping tied -- desert gaiters (even dirty girls) also keep the laces from getting caught on bushes.

Daria,
Question for you:

Why, if you think this: "It may come not as a surprise to people, but all those fancy approach shoes special materials and advanced technology is a marketing ploy to get your $$$$$.

And this:
I'm sorta sick of all the distinctions and selections: approach shoes, running shoes, climbing shoes, hiking shoes, trail runners.....wtf???

And then showing us pictures of your beat-up shoes. . .
Why are you even looking at those "fancy" Camp Fours and La Sportivas?? I mean, WTF? Bit of a contradiction, is it not, to blast others' talk of approach shoes, ridiculing such talk, etc. while at the same time, it seems you're shopping for them and can't find the "right fit," etc.
I think this is what one or two of the previous posters were getting at with you. . .

Aw, she just wants to stimulate discussion. But I'm sure she's absorbing the opinions here.

Hats off to folks who can do with cheap shoes -- but I usually end up paying less for my approach shoes (once I've settled on brands I like) than I do for running shoes. I've worn running shoes for class 3 scrambles, but don't like 'em on 1) snow; 2) sandstone; 3) places where I have to edge. I think Asmrz once discussed wearing running shoes in the Sierra in snow, just by putting his socks inside plastic bags to make a cheap vapor barrier, so maybe the snow restriction will fall too. Light meshy running shoes do much better in a lot of wet Zion-type areas-- they drain quickly.

I've never seen hot-selling models on sale (we're still talking about approach shoes!).

Dskoon, question for you. Why are you always trying to dig up dirt?

Nothing wrong with doing a thorough research on shoes and technology made for shoes. I am always intrigued by elements relating to design. Also, I already made my complaint that my ordinary running shoes are not as durable as I like. I believe I'm having trouble finding something as comfortable as my running shoes and am trying to make a point in that how far a regular pair of shoes can really take you.... but realize that there are advantages of other shoes on the market. A little research and shopping around goes a long way. Can dskoon exercise a little bit of intelligence and realize that much of human thought and practice involves conflicting, contradictory elements?

I think the best solution is having multiple pairs of shoes. Simple as that. There are some really sweet light la sportiva boots that I tried on at a climbing store that I would just love for rugged cross country long distance travel.

Ok, now I am really getting riled up. Look at this:



WHY DOES SOCIETY FEEL THE NEED TO TRANSFORM A BADASS COLOR COMBINATION FOR MALE SHOES INTO VOMIT INDUCING COLOR PALLET FOR THE WOMAN'S VERSION?????????????????????????????????????????????

Bob Burd shops at Big 5 for $25 shoes. Just sayin'.

To to the OP, I found a pair of Montrail Hardrock for $55 at Mammoth Mountaineering Exchange and took it for a 10 mile trailrun for an introduction and love them. I have found Gryptonite sole on the montrail trailrunners to be very good on slab/4th/low 5th and durable. I have used Montrail Hurricance Ridge on the Polemonium-Sill traverse. My opinion is that approach shoes are not as durable compared to trailrunners. I take these Montrail trailrunners for hikes/canyoneering in Death Valley and Utah and they have held up relatively well. Cross country terrain in DV can unforgiving. One of these days I'll smarten up and start purchasing $30 or less shoes.

Daria wrote: Can dskoon exercise a little bit of intelligence

While I agree with many of the comments in this post, the comment above is not likely to cause dskoon to change to your view; such a change should be the goal of argumentation, right? Maybe if you were in a room talking, and joking as friends, the comment would seem innocent, but on the web...

and realize that much of human thought and practice involves conflicting, contradictory elements?

While I agree somewhat, I don't think most us feel that conflict as intensely as you do, so it is a little hard to relate.

segue... I tried the Big 5 route. Their shoes don't fit me at all-- but the shoes typically have grippy soft-rubber soles (that wear out quickly).

another segue... I like brightly-colored shoes.

The idea of finding the ideal pair of shoes and comparing shoes is a conflicting matter. To add to the mix and confusion, we have all these technical medical terms like high vs. low arch support, different feet type-whats better for the feet? "low volume or high volume foot"...wtf??

http://www.superfeet.com/foot-health/FHI38.aspx

Feet that are generally very flat, or have a very low arch may be categorized as a pronated, or over-pronated foot. Generally, feet with very high arches and a more stable foot, would be categorized as a supinated foot. There are exceptions to these situations, some flat feet that are very stable and then there are some high-arched feet that can be very unstable.

CClaude wrote: Not knowing if you have a low volume or high volume foot makes it hard for anyone to make a suggestion.

Heres a description of the Asics 2160 trail runners:

Lightweight, flexible synthetic textile and polyester mesh uppers offer maximum breathability and comfort; memory foam-lined collars mold to each foot for amazing comfort
Wicking polyester linings move excess moisture away from feet and dry fast
Footbeds are designed to supply additional cushioning and manage moisture for a cool, dry and comfortable shoe environment
Dual-density Solyte® 55 lasting uses proprietary polymer material in heel and forefoot to enhance cushioning
Proprietary Solyte midsoles are also exceptionally lightweight with excellent rebound for easy running
Forefoot and hindfoot GEL® silicone-based cushioning inserts absorb excess shock in all directions for great stability
Impact Guidance System (IGS®) helps slow pronation for an optimal gait and natural foot movement from heel strike through toe-off
Dual-density midsole posting improves stability and support
In addition, midfoot stability system creates a pocket between midsole supports, enhancing shock absorption and controlling midsole deformation for efficiency
Aggressively lugged blown rubber outsoles have abrasion-resistant material in the heels and forefoot material that cushions and increases traction and feel
Vertical flex groove in outsoles follows the line of progression throughout the gait cycle to enhance gait efficiency
3M Scotchlite™ reflective accents enhance visibility in low light
ASICS GT-2160 women's trail-running shoes proudly carry the Seal of Acceptance from the American Podiatric Medical Association

to say that I am little conflicted and confused is an understatement

Also, Moapa dude, the whole point of my response is that I don't appreciate being scrutinized and frankly, I don't need to explain myself to anyone or adhere to someones standards of logic and consistency.

I agree, the descriptions of shoes are maddening.

High-volume vs. low-volume: Have you ever had a shoe that seemed to fit in width and length... but no matter how tight you pulled the laces, till the eyelets touched, the shoe was STILL not tight on your foot? Then relative to the normal user of that shoe, you have low-volume feet. The "volume" is really the footprint area x the average height of your foot.

The best way to tell if you supinate or pronate (enough to worry about), is to put your shoes on the ground, and look at the back of the heels. Does either shoe lean to one side? If it leans out from your body center line, you supinate that foot; if it leans in from the body centerline, you pronate. Or you can just look at the bottoms of the shoes -- is the inside or outside of the sole worn more?

Intense supinators or pronators often get foot injuries, For me, the problem is that I am more likely to turn the ankle of my supinating foot.

Nobody is saying you have to be consistent; but when you include criticism of other in your inconsistency, well...

Daria wrote:Dskoon, question for you. Why are you always trying to dig up dirt?

Nothing wrong with doing a thorough research on shoes and technology made for shoes. I am always intrigued by elements relating to design. Also, I already made my complaint that my ordinary running shoes are not as durable as I like. I believe I'm having trouble finding something as comfortable as my running shoes and am trying to make a point in that how far a regular pair of shoes can really take you.... but realize that there are advantages of other shoes on the market. A little research and shopping around goes a long way. Can dskoon exercise a little bit of intelligence and realize that much of human thought and practice involves conflicting, contradictory elements?

Daria, to answer your question, I'm not always "trying to dig up dirt." . . .
I'm only commenting on what some others did as well: that you made a couple strong "rediculous statements" regarding the supposed worthlessness of over-"marketed, etc." approach shoes,(in a couple different posts), and then you go on to say you're apparently shopping for said shoes. . . Hmmm. Maybe as Moapa says, you're just trying to stimulate discussion.

Frankly, I don't care if you hike/climb barefoot, in your beatups, or in La Sportiva Nepals. I just have to respond when I see strong statements that reek of BS,(especially in a thread posted by the OP in an earnest question), followed by other contradictory statements. Not digging up dirt, just responding to BS. As I'd do to anyone. If you would've put some thought into your posts, rather than just responding with some BS that doesn't make you look too intelligent, well, then, we might not be having this discussion.
Anyway, good luck shopping.

dskoon wrote:

Daria wrote:Dskoon, question for you. Why are you always trying to dig up dirt?

Nothing wrong with doing a thorough research on shoes and technology made for shoes. I am always intrigued by elements relating to design. Also, I already made my complaint that my ordinary running shoes are not as durable as I like. I believe I'm having trouble finding something as comfortable as my running shoes and am trying to make a point in that how far a regular pair of shoes can really take you.... but realize that there are advantages of other shoes on the market. A little research and shopping around goes a long way. Can dskoon exercise a little bit of intelligence and realize that much of human thought and practice involves conflicting, contradictory elements?

Daria, to answer your question, I'm not always "trying to dig up dirt." . . .
I'm only commenting on what some others did as well: that you made a couple strong "rediculous statements" regarding the supposed worthlessness of over-"marketed, etc." approach shoes,(in a couple different posts), and then you go on to say you're apparently shopping for said shoes. . . Hmmm. Maybe as Moapa says, you're just trying to stimulate discussion.

Frankly, I don't care if you hike/climb barefoot, in your beatups, or in La Sportiva Nepals. I just have to respond when I see strong statements that reek of BS,(especially in a thread posted by the OP in an earnest question), followed by other contradictory statements. Not digging up dirt, just responding to BS. As I'd do to anyone. If you would've put some thought into your posts, rather than just responding with some BS that doesn't make you look too intelligent, well, then, we might not be having this discussion.
Anyway, good luck shopping.

You need more fashion in your life, mr. stereotypicalwhiteoldermale!



You have any suggestions for expen$$$$ive approach/trail/running/climbing/hiking shoes that would look good with my outfit?

Daria wrote:

You need more fashion in your life, mr. stereotypicalwhiteoldermale!



You have any suggestions for expen$$$$ive approach/trail/running/climbing/hiking shoes that would look good with my outfit?

Nice comeback, Daria-darling. . .