SummitPost.org

ExcitableBoy wrote:BTW, I never attacked anyone, unless asking to validate their opinions with real world experience is an attack. Grow a pair. (That was an example of an attack).

What about the post that was removed?

I removed the following post: Chirp, chirp, chirp. As in the sound of crickets. Do you take that as an attack? Like my mother said, 'grow a thicker skin' if you really feel like that was a personal attack.

mistdaemon wrote:Again, you are not accurate in your statements. You were not asking to validate opinions with real world experience, you were saying that you would not listen if the person did not climb routes in Alaska.

The thread title is "Lightest Bag for the Alaska Range?" not lightest bag for sunny California. If you have never climbed anything in the AK, how can you possibly think you know what you are talking about?

mistdaemon wrote:So, please tell me how many times you have personally used a VB sleeping bag, in any way, shape or form? I have used one numerous times. This means that, unless I am wrong, I have infinitely more experience with VB sleeping bags than you. The same is true for your friends if they have not used one. So, please do validate your opinion based on your real world experience with a VB sleeping bag.

I have never used a VBL sleeping bag liner. Please tell me where my logic fails:

VBL sleeing bag liners require sleeping in only a light base layer. You can't wear all your clothes to bed.
VBL adds up to +10 degrees
My clothes add up to +30 degrees with zero addition of weight.



Explain what is wrong with my math? Also, name a current AK Range climber that uses a VBL, or are these hardmen too stupid to realize the advantages?

mistdaemon wrote:Your "math" is interesting in the humor dept., but not really useful. So, you put on all your clothes, which means that if it got colder, you would have a problem. Also, all of your clothes are going to become more moist than if you did not have them on, which is not a good thing.

Again, explain my math mistakes. Your statemment "Also, all of your clothes are going to become more moist" is really indicitive of your lack of experience in the AK Range.

ExcitableBoy wrote:I removed the following post: Chirp, chirp, chirp. As in the sound of crickets. Do you take that as an attack? Like my mother said, 'grow a thicker skin' if you really feel like that was a personal attack.

Think about it, why did you do that? At least you had the sense to remove it, although not before it was seen. It speaks volumes about you.

The thread title is "Lightest Bag for the Alaska Range?" not lightest bag for sunny California. If you have never climbed anything in the AK, how can you possibly think you know what you are talking about?

That is funny. Is Alaska the only place that is cold? Do you really think the conditions are unique in Alaska and there is no other place in the world like it? Yeah, the views and specific mountains, but that does not relate to the sleeping bag.

Let me ask you the question, taken from what you have said:

If you have never used a VB sleeping bag, how can you possibly think that you know what you are talking about?

Quite humorous. You discount and attack the suggestion to look at VB sleeping bags, but you have never used one, don't really know much about them, but we are supposed to listen to your opinions?

I have never used a VBL sleeping bag liner.

How about that, an admission that you don't have any experience with VB sleeping bags.

[/quote]
Please tell me where my logic fails:

VBL sleeing bag liners require sleeping in only a light base layer. You can't wear all your clothes to bed.
VBL adds up to +10 degrees
My clothes add up to +30 degrees with zero addition of weight.

Explain what is wrong with my math?
[/quote]

It is not really based on anything other than your claim that it added 30 degrees. Just sleep in all your clothes and then you can save the weight of a sleeping bag .

Also, name a current AK Range climber that uses a VBL, or are these hardmen too stupid to realize the advantages?

Please do a survey and pool the climbers and see how many have tried a VB bag and ask why they don't those that have tried one don't think it is a good idea.

Quite clearly you have decided that it is unacceptable, but have no personal experience and don't seem to know anyone who actually has personal experience. This type of "logic" can explain why others do use it either.

ExcitableBoy wrote:Your statemment "Also, all of your clothes are going to become more moist" is really indicitive of your lack of experience in the AK Range.

Really? Perhaps you can explain to me how the body works and what happens to the moisture which comes out of the body. In Alaska, does it magically stay away from your clothes? Do you really think that your clothes will be dryer if you sleep in them?

mistdaemon wrote: In Alaska, does it magically stay away from your clothes? Do you really think that your clothes will be dryer if you sleep in them?

Frankly, yes. If you have climbed there you would know that.

I removed the following post: Chirp, chirp, chirp. As in the sound of crickets. Do you take that as an attack? Like my mother said, 'grow a thicker skin' if you really feel like that was a personal attack.

mistdaemon wrote:Think about it, why did you do that? At least you had the sense to remove it, although not before it was seen. It speaks volumes about you.

I did think about it. I removed it because I sensed your blood pressure couldn't with stand some good natured teasing. I'm curious professor, what volumes does this speak about me?

mistdaemon wrote: Do you really think the conditions are unique in Alaska...?

...don't really know much about them, but we are supposed to listen to your opinions?

Yes, I do think the Alaska Range is unique.

I am familiar with theory behind sleeping bag VBLs and have extesive experience using VBL socks, enough to know there are much better tactics for sleeping. I use what has proven to work for me and my partners and friends.

Please tell me where my logic fails:

VBL sleeing bag liners require sleeping in only a light base layer. You can't wear all your clothes to bed.
VBL adds up to +10 degrees
My clothes add up to +30 degrees with zero addition of weight.

Explain what is wrong with my math?

mistdaemon wrote:It is based on [your clothes] added 30 degrees. Just sleep in all your clothes and then you can save the weight of a sleeping bag.

NEWSFLASH: The Alaska Range is colder than 30 degrees. Something for you to consider when you try to climb there in nothing more than vbl clothes and a bag.

Here are the recommended equipment lists for Denali from several guide outfits with decades of experience guiding Alaskan Range peaks. Try to find where sleeping bag VBLs are listed:
(Hint: It is not)

http://www.climbalaska.org/pdf/wb_eq_list.pdf

http://www.aai.cc/pdf_download/WButt_equipment_list.pdf

http://www.rmiguides.com/mt-mckinley/we ... #equipment

http://www.alpineascents.com/pdf/denali-gear.pdf

Although personally I did not use a bag like this, I see no reason why I should. If I was offered to try one for free, I would accept and give it a chance (on a low key trip). But so far I figured a system that works fine for me anywhere. I have not had a problem with so much gained weight (by my down bag) due to perspiration. And I did not notice it getting less comfortable at any point. Using a VB bag seems like a big inconvenience for climbing in cold ranges. Who the hell wants to take their clothes off, and put on cold clothes in the morning???? When it was real cold I slept in several layers, with mitts and liners in my bag. First thing I would do before getting out is put all that on. Starting out the day colder than you should be is a major inconvenience. Having another bag stuffed in your sleeping bag and not sleeping with your clothes on would be a major cluster. These are some of the things I learned so far, and I have not done any grade 6 Alaska climbs like EB's friends! Labeling those people as "not smart men" is not a wise thing, because you simply do not know their needs. I am glad it works for your needs.

ExcitableBoy wrote:Here are the recommended equipment lists for Denali from several guide outfits with decades of experience guiding Alaskan Range peaks. Try to find where sleeping bag VBLs are listed:

Do you see where is says not to use a VB?

BTW, you missed the humor in my response to just sleep in all your clothes and you seem to violate the recommended ratings for a sleeping bag, so you are not listening to what you are suggesting, but I guess that does not mean that others should not listen to what you are attempting to use for your defense.

Also, the only thing that you sensed was your own delusions and not my blood pressure. I guess there was not much more you could say to defend yourself. As to the curious professor, if you were actually curious, you would try a VB sleeping bag rather than saying the things that you have been saying. Personally, I think that if you used everything, then you were really not prepared since if things got worse, you would not have the reserve.

Also, it seems that those suggestions are not for the experienced since most should already know what they should have, whereas tourists would not.

mistdaemon wrote:

ExcitableBoy wrote:Here are the recommended equipment lists for Denali from several guide outfits with decades of experience guiding Alaskan Range peaks. Try to find where sleeping bag VBLs are listed:

Do you see where is says not to use a VB?

BTW, you missed the humor in my response to just sleep in all your clothes and you seem to violate the recommended ratings for a sleeping bag, so you are not listening to what you are suggesting, but I guess that does not mean that others should not listen to what you are attempting to use for your defense.

Also, the only thing that you sensed was your own delusions and not my blood pressure. I guess there was not much more you could say to defend yourself. As to the curious professor, if you were actually curious, you would try a VB sleeping bag rather than saying the things that you have been saying. Personally, I think that if you used everything, then you were really not prepared since if things got worse, you would not have the reserve.

You really have no idea what you are talking about, just FYI.

Vitaliy M. wrote:You really have no idea what you are talking about, just FYI.

Far more than you do it seems, especially when you look at what you responded to.

ExcitableBoy wrote:Here are the recommended equipment lists for Denali from several guide outfits with decades of experience guiding Alaskan Range peaks. Try to find where sleeping bag VBLs are listed:

mistdaemon wrote:Do you see where is says not to use a VB?

Are you f'ing kidding me? They don't explicitly indicate NOT to bring a bowling ball either.

mistdaemon wrote:...you seem to violate the recommended ratings for a sleeping bag, so you are not listening to what you are suggesting, but I guess that does not mean that others should not listen to what you are attempting to use for your defense.

Using a lighter than recommended bag with all your clothing is a time tested strategy. My expedition bag, made by Feathered Friends for a K2 expeciditon is rated -10 and is cut slightly large to accomodate all of the climber's clothes to make the sleeping system warm enough for the cold temperatures of K2.

mistdaemon wrote: Personally, I think that if you used everything, then you were really not prepared since if things got worse, you would not have the reserve.

Yeah, you just don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Have you EVER CLIMBED ANYTHING in the AK Range or similarly cold, hard range to justify your self important opinions?

And what's with all the 'defense' shit? Are you 12 or something?

you seem to violate the recommended ratings for a sleeping bag

Alpinists and thru hikers do this all the time to go lighter. Instead of using a warmass sleeping bag you sleep in your clothes, and if it will get real cold you will have to suffer a bit. People even use short ground pads for that, cut on layers they bring, use less water, etc. So you obviously do not understand that EB was 'violating' the recommended ratings for a sleeping bag on purpose. He was not doing a slog peak for which it is ok to haul a sled up it's shoulder.

mistdaemon wrote:

ExcitableBoy wrote:Loogok/mistdaemon:
What big Alaskan routes have you climbed using this amazing VBL sleeping bag system? Infinite Spur? Moonflower Buttress? ISIS Face? Please, post up.

In other words, you really don't know much about VB.

In other words, you haven't climbed shit.

mistdaemon wrote: I suspect you are trying to claim that I use two accounts. Care to put money on it? Any amount, as long as you actually have to money to pay me.

No shit Sherlock, and yes. Hiding behind two separate IP addys doesn't change your writing style.

lopgok wrote:And I am not mistdaemon, though you seem to think so (with absolutely no evidence)

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.