Maximizing stove efficiency

[staringcontest]

Anyone have any tricks of the trade for boosting the performance of canister stoves? I currently use an old and simple honey bird stove with remote canister fuel line. I have a windscreen homemade from an oven tray and aluminum pot. I dislike the spill potential of the Pocket Rocket for melting large amounts of snow and that the canister has to contact snow beneath.

Various habits I've picked up over time:

-Buffer canister from snow with a glove or boot.
-Dig small hole for stove/pot to nest in while cooking.
-Insulate the canister with a beanie stuffed in plastic boot shell when it's cold
-I've defaced the outside bottom and sides of the pot with an even layer of char over a wood fire. Haven't looked into the science proving if this accomplishes anything or not, but I figured it is the same principle behind the necessity of sweeping a chimney after too much creosote accumulation.

Any other tips are much appreciated.

[ExcitableBoy]

You should not insulate the canister. As gas leaves the canister, it cools off. Insulating makes this problem worse. Instead, place the canister in a shallow pan and occasionally dribble warm water over it from the pot.

I have a Pocket Rocket and have played around with ways of improving efficiency. Here is what I have done:

-Made a simple heat exchanger by crimping an MSR wind screen so that it fits tightly around the pot. This funnels heat up the sides of the pot. The heat exchanger also reflects heat back onto the pot if I am not using a remote stove stand which helps keep it warm in cold weather.
-Found a tall, 1 liter, black anodized aluminum pot. I think the shape, color, and metal are the most efficient for heat conduction.
-In cool weather I place the canister in a dish of warm water
-I sleep with the canister

I have tried using chemical hand warmers taped to the canister as well as the old trick of wrapping 1/4" copper tubing around the canister and poking one end into the flame. I determined that simply dribbling warm water over the canister worked the best to keep the stove going in cold temperatures. In really cold temperatures and low elevation, e.g. Cascades in winter, AK Range in spring, I use a white gas stove.

[JD]

There aren't a lot good data on the subject, unfortunately. Part of the reason is because there are so many variables. So while it's easy to come up with a list of ways to improve fuel efficiency it's much, much harder to quantify the improvements. As a result, in some cases (e.g. a heat exchanger on anything other than a long trip) you can improve fuel efficiency but end up carrying more total weight.

That said...

- protect the stove from the wind and cold (windscreen, sheltered area, and/or inside the vestibule or tent)
- use as a wide a pot as practical
- use a non-inverted stove, if possible
- use a heat exchanger (longer trips)

It's pretty obvious that wind affects a stove's efficiency. But the other things are harder to measure in real conditions. You'd need to weigh things carefully and take temperature readings. Nobody wants to do that while snow camping. So some of these suggestions will just end up being faith based: maybe they work well, maybe not that well, maybe not enough to bother, maybe not at all.

Good luck.

[staringcontest]

There aren't a lot good data on the subject, unfortunately. Part of the reason is because there are so many variables.

Yeah. A part of of it, me thinks, boils down to some tricks we are pretty sure work, but don't have data points to work off of. I think the rest is just trial and error learning. Thanks for the tips.

[staringcontest]

-Found a tall, 1 liter, black anodized aluminum pot. I think the shape, color, and metal are the most efficient for heat conduction.

I also use a 1L anodized pot on two-person trips. The manufacturer offered it in a plain version that I own, and one with a heat exchange ring fabricated to the underside. I decided to "keep it simple, stupid" thinking the plain bottom was worth the weight savings.

I have tried using chemical hand warmers taped to the canister as well as the old trick of wrapping 1/4" copper tubing around the canister and poking one end into the flame. I determined that simply dribbling warm water over the canister worked the best to keep the stove going in cold temperatures.

Style points for the old timer tricks. It's almost like this isn't your first rodeo, LOL. I'll give the water dribbling a shot. I didn't consider insulating the canister could worsen the effects, now I can start wearing my boots when I cook haha. Thanks for the advice.

[beean]

Here's another addition to the bag of tricks, assuming you're in snow.

http://confessionsofaskibum.com/confessions04.html

[JD]

Here's another addition to the bag of tricks, assuming you're in snow.

http://confessionsofaskibum.com/confessions04.html

-1 point for completely screwing up the physics explanation for why canisters lose pressure.
-1 point for spelling it "loosing".

I didn't read any further.


As for blackened pots, I've wondered about that. I hate a soot covered pot but I suppose you can paint your pot or buy a black anodized pot. There were some boil speed tests and also discussions of the physics on a backpackinglight thread several years ago. The consensus? None. One set of tests indicated it helped; one set indicated it either did nothing or made it worse. And the guys who sounded like they really knew the physics said it could work for you or against you depending on the details but in any case was unlikely to have a major effect.

There is a pretty good agreement that a wider, shorter pot is significantly more efficient than a tall, narrow pot. A pot can be so wide that it is less efficient but I suspect a typical stove won't easily support a pot wide enough for that to be an issue.

Also, at least according to MSR, inverting the canister is less efficient than using the canister in a top mount configuration.

[beean]

Here's another addition to the bag of tricks, assuming you're in snow.

http://confessionsofaskibum.com/confessions04.html

-1 point for completely screwing up the physics explanation for why canisters lose pressure.
-1 point for spelling it "loosing".

I didn't read any further.

Cool. Not my article, but the OP might find it handy.

[JD]

Cool. Not my article, but the OP might find it handy.

I didn't mean to imply that it was yours. Sorry if it came across that way.

The article is filled with misinformation. The notion that "built up moisture on the tank" is the cause of pressure loss is absurd. Moisture freezing on the outside of a canister actually warms the canister. And the suggested solution -- to completely encase the canister in ensolite -- not only won't help, it's actually counterproductive.

I do agree with one point though. It's handy to be able to crunch a used canister down to a smaller volume. It's typically harder to do when snow camping though.

[CameronGround]

Not to sound like an advertisement, but I think you'll have a hard time squeezing more efficiency out of your canister fuel than you will by using an integrated pot and stove system like the MSR windburner, if all you're doing is boiling water. The stove fixes to the bottom of the pot, the whole thing designed to maximize the amount of combustion heat that gets to your water and minimize the waste. Mine boils 2 cups absurdly fast, like a minute or two.

As the name suggests it's also great in wind. The stove to pot mating geometry completely blocks out the wind and the pot is insulated, so there's no noticeable increase in boiling time with a pretty steady 20mph breeze going. No need to worry about sheltering it perfectly behind rocks or some finicky windscreen.

It's not the cheapest or lightest, but at least for the weight, the fuel savings would add up on a longer trip. And the convenience makes it worth the extra few ounces for me even on a short trip.

[staringcontest]

I think you'll have a hard time squeezing more efficiency out of your canister fuel than you will by using an integrated pot and stove system like the MSR windburner

A buddy has that MSR reactor stove, and sheesh, that sucker brought snow to a boil in no more than 120 seconds. If I hit the Megamillion maybe I'll justify buying one.

[mariomolina]

I have a Markill / Vaude Stormy tower stove.
These you can either hang or stand ; the base section has three small feet.
The fuel line is long enough so you can actually hang the fuel cylinder from the feet upside down.
By drilling holes in each of the feet, then using a large split key ring to go around the top of the fuel cylinder( now upside down) and three springs which you attach to the holes in the feet, you now a cylinder that is being warmed by the stove and is also gravity fed.
Using this setup,when a cylinder is done; it's done.
When came up with this setup i worried about the possibility of an explosion.
I ran three cylinders, one after another, and nothing happened.
Mario