SummitPost.org

Calcium:
Here is a link to that tetany I mentioned. Though don't get bogged down or paranoid about the causes, like any Web-based diagnosis. In most cases, it's a stress response. If we react stressfully, then all sorts of effects follow. Balancing ones thoughts is the key to better health. I sure gained some insights from The Dog Whisperer shows - as more often, responding stressfully to situations, only raises the ante. Cool is a better form of defence because someone will be more wary of you if you show no fear.

<a href=http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=13312>Tetany - Calcium</a>

<a href=http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/241893-overview>Hypocalcemia</a>
Read the paragraph: Pathophysiology

Remembering that, Hypo- anything, is "less". Hyper is more.

Are you getting the right amount of francium and radium?

My calfs cramped terribly during my first trip into the Grand Canyon around '89. But that was my first backpacking trip in over 14 years, so I suffered through it (as if i had a choice). The cramps always took place at night and got worse if I tried to stretch them out... The next trip, 4 months later, I carried a 1/2 liter bottle filled with a crystal light solution to help flavor the water and promote drinking. My other water bottles or dromedary bag only carried clear water. At least once per day I drank one electrolyte mix. The cramping never appeared. I was a happy camper!

The electrolyte product called HEED was what I used. Worked very well. Nowadays it seems that the ShotBlok gummybears or gumdrops are popular.

- Wisdom

MoapaPk wrote:Are you getting the right amount of francium and radium?

I take my francium with a glass of water, but it always seem to burn going down.

I keep a stash of Hammer Nutrition Endurolytes electrolyte caps in my pack for long runs/rides. They're fairly mild (versus the Succeed ones).

Back when I was swimming competively Every swim season would start out the same way. After a couple weeks of minimal exercise I would get back in the water and would be fine the first couple days. Then I would get cramps toward the end of practice in my calf or the arch of my foot(that one hurts) I would get out rub it for a minute and get back in the water. After about a week of training and eating about three bananas a day I would not cramp the rest of the season.

I generaly stay very well hydrated, but in high school I had to get out of the water to go to the drinking fountain. In college we had water bottles on the side of the pool and I never cramped in college.

Has anybody compared Nuun with Elete? What are some other options out there for water additives that you would recommend?

MoapaPk wrote:Are you getting the right amount of francium and radium?

Some cramping is simply due to muscle fatigue. This will become less of a problem with training.

Electrolyte depletion and dehydration will cause cramping as well.

Water by itself in the setting of heavy sweating is not enough, salt replacement is necessary.

Gatorade is my favorite, works well for me. Actually a near-ideal solution is Gatorade diluted 50:50 with water. Not much flavor, but it gives you a better ratio of H20, sugar and salt.

Eat more salty foods. (Table salt = sodium chloride.) You can also buy "No Salt," which is a salt composed of potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride. I mix regular table salt with "No Salt" for food seasoning for extra electrolyte replacement.

The poor man's Gatorade is plain water and Saltine crackers (= H20 + starch + salt). Salty snacks such as party crackers are also a great way both carbohydrates and salt. The crackers come in a variety of flavors and textures.

There's no need for all kinds of fancy and expensive solutions.

Elete is relatively cheap per gallon, and I'm largely just looking at another option to try. I'm not actually asking for myself, however. I'm asking for my dad, who works long hours as a tradesman and doesn't really have time to stop and eat. He didn't used to get cramps like he does now, but the nature of his cramps are a combination of fatigue from older age and electrolyte depletion I believe. He's gotten better at staying hydrated lately, but I'm looking for other easy options beyond buying craploads of gatorade, which has only produced limited success.

i agree with the comments on muscle overuse as a cause. i start cycling and did my first multihour uphill slog, with the same hydration / electrolyte balance as what i would for the same intensity hike, but it was so much quad work that the last 30 minutes were absolutely brutal with cramping starting lightly but getting worse by the end. muscle conditioning definitely has a place in cramping

I am the King of sweating when exercising. Some bug that quite a few here know of by now, (you must be bored stiff me mentioning it again), that cannot be traced, gives me mild flue like symptoms, exhaustion and prodigious sweating when it hits. Great if that happens whilst I am on a mountain walking trip.

In hot summer weather in Europe I've had to drink at least 1 litre before setting out on a walk, that's close to 2 pints. Then take over 7 litres with me. Close to 13 pints. Most of which gets sweated out.

Returning from such a summer walk when the bug has hit me means I have to get up every couple of nights the following night. Not to pee, but to drink more.

I've just about given up summer walking in the mountains now because of the aggro of having to carry and drink so much.

Thankfully my favourite walking is in winter, but I still carry a minimum of 3 litres, (over 5 pints), and have to drink a further pint before I leave the trailhead. For walks that typically will see me on the trail for 8 -10 hours and do up to 3,500 feet of ascent in wintry conditions.

I drink Isotonic, and when the sugar starts to make me feel a bit sick I take water.

Cramps are a major problem because of the sweating. I had one fall this last winter descending an icy ridge when cramps attacked: the inner part of my upper thigh. Got my ice axe in so fast I hardly started to slide!

Bearing in mind where the cramp was, (that is usually where they start), I would have loved some dirndl wearing Bavarian Serving Wench to be there to rub it better. But you don't meet those lovely creatures in the Welsh mountains. So I take salt. Which works quickly. Every time, and so far without fail.

If I don't take more salt before getting back to my B&B the cramps will return. Not just my thighs, but also my fingers seize up. So if that happens when eating my evening meal I have to take salt before I can get back to holding a knife and fork.

For recovery I take a full rest day between every full days walk. Drink loads of mainly water, but also some Isotonic. And add lots of salt to my food.

Don't usually start peeing properly until a couple of days after I get home from a trip.

Bryan - one possible problem is excess yeast in your digestive system. Add carbs/sugars and water and you get a fermentation and then die off cycle which will make you feel sick have acid and gas and sweat a lot. I went through this and had to cut out carbs/sugars and especially no pop, no beer, no wine or juice for several weeks to kill down the yeast.
It has been several years now but now I only drink pasteurized beer and limit the sugars that I eat or drink. I sweat much less than I ever have, drink less water than before and recover faster. Half gatorade and half water is preferred for longer 8 to 16 hour days.

I have similar issues when in the mountains. A climb of Shasta turned into a sufferfest when both quads began severely cramping a quarter way up Casaval Ridge. I've noticed that eating well the night before and a good breakfast in the morning help a lot. Increase your water intake but not dramatically so, as other people have said, but increase your salt and magnesium intake as well.

I find it interesting that this issue replicated itself a few years ago when I tried Creatine for the first time. Apparently, Creatine produces an electrolyte imbalance in the lower extremities that caused me to severely cramp while running or doing step ups. This was remedied, like I said, by increasing salt and magnesium intake in conjunction with water intake.

Hope sharing my experiences with this same issue has helped.

Bryan Benn wrote:I had one fall this last winter descending an icy ridge when cramps attacked: the inner part of my upper thigh.

Bearing in mind where the cramp was, (that is usually where they start), I would have loved some dirndl wearing Bavarian Serving Wench to be there to rub it better. But you don't meet those lovely creatures in the Welsh mountains.

Bavarian Serving Wenches? Rubbing your inner part of your upper thigh? That wasn't a "cramp" Bryan! Now tell the truth, just what did you use to arrest your fall?

1. I've gotten extremely painful thigh cramps that stopped me in my tracks. They've only come during running events lasting several hours (mountain ultras) and usually only start after several hours of downhill pounding--my hydration and electrolytes have been good so I know it was overuse/fatigue. I just walk until they're gone.

2. As for hydration, I usually drink too much when I'm hiking/mountaineering and have to stop to pee a lot. Like someone said previously, your body can absorb only so much water per hour and the rest just waters the flowers or stains the rock. You can't store up like a camel. Better indicator of adequate hydration is urine that looks like LEMONADE; if it looks like APPLE JUICE, you're dehydrated.

3. I wouldn't worry about extra electrolytes during your recovery periods-your normal meals should take care of that.