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Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:48 pm
by goldenhopper
Skateboards2Scrapers wrote:the consensus on weight lifting is.....

there is no consensus

it is a perpetually evolving set of 'rules' relating to the game of weight lifting, preferred methodological sequences, as well as pertinent values of quantity of movements performed. Ostensibly, everybody is an expert in these things.


I'll agree with that to a large degree, but as with anything "optimal" and "beneficial" are two very different things. No doubt weight training can assist in strength, muscular endurance and glycogen storage. At the same time depending on your activity it could hamper your performance if not utilized properly. The truth is you will know best if you're getting any benefit from your training for your given activity.

Either way this is one of the most entertaining books I've ever read:

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Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:52 pm
by epicclimb
The iron pile will advance you in times of need. try to avoid overusing this resource but it should be a significant and welltimed piece of your trianing puzzle. i have a oly bar and 2 plates combined with the rings a hangboard and steep hills to run i get virtually all the crosstraining im looking for

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:11 pm
by kylenicolls
I say use the weight room to some extent. You have a shitload of free weights and enough utensils that you can improvise to what you think you need to work on. Keep a sweat on.

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:56 pm
by Skateboards2Scrapers
Also, never make a static workout plan, always allow for a dynamic workout plan, insomuch that one should be able to significantly augment the plan in accordance with results and how the body feels.


Will Gadd has a blog (forgot the url, google it) and discusses timing from time to time, most of his posts are spot on and nail it. Especially considering the dude is one of the top ice climbers on the face of our planet...

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:33 pm
by CSUMarmot
Think of the extra weight you gain in muscle as a few extra pounds in your backpack, haul those few extra pounds up a mountain and you're getting the benefits of conditioning and endurance training. When I climb a mountain, I think of it as almost pure cardio workout (unless class 3+, then its an all around workout), so that may justify the time you take out of a cardio workout to lift weights at the gym.

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:27 pm
by Tonka
bird wrote:http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie
O.P. Read this, maybe try some of it and decide yourself...


This is a very good article and anyone who trains/works-out should be imlementing some of this advice. He is so right about the set-up and running of your typical gym.

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:16 am
by GEM Trail
In my opinion, every hiker could benefit from a solid resistance training program. There are many ways to skin a cat here. You get two main benefits from strength training:

1 strengthen the primary muscles used, to stave off fatigue.

2 injury proofing your body

With 1 above, all kinds of lower body and core exercises are appropriate. And don't neglect the upper body. Many basic programs will out line a dozen or so exercises, most of which can easily be done with just bodyweight movements.

2 will come with one, but can be greatly enhanced by conscious exercise choices and strict form in the gym. whole body movements that require balance and coordination - think things like overhead lunges - will give you extra confidence in real world situations. Like for example, the overhead lunge resembles carrying a loaded pack overhead across a river. And if you wanted you could modify exercises to approximate almost any movement you want to strengthen or train! So take that overhead lunge, do it barefoot, maybe on a wobble board, maybe with your eyes closed, maybe at the end of a workout to simulate a long day.

The injury-proofing effect of a good strength program is, I think, the best reason to do it.

And there is nothing wrong with the backpack on the stairmaster or treadmill!

Good luck.

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:55 am
by radson
Im a big fan of the weighted overhead walking lunge. I currently use 30kg barbell and do sets of 20 in between 10 burpee jumps. I would love to increase that weight to 50 kg but am being cautious as im worried about blowing out a knee.

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:02 pm
by CClaude
GEM Trail is absolutely correct. Strength training, especially the stablizers and antagonists are important. You should be strength training for balance. The more you can prevent injuries the better off you are.

Personally in 30yrs of strength training, I probably haven't gained an ounce, since I've always weighed right around 148lbs (~67Kg) .

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:38 pm
by chasegru
Since February this year I have, for the first time in my life, been routinely including the weight room in my training. Also very concerned about gaining mass I have, for the first time in my life, been weighing in before every work out. The results:
1) Beyond +/-3 lbs my weight has not significantly deviated from baseline.
2)I've been feeling the fittest I've ever felt on the trail, glacier, or rock crag. It doesn't even compare to my previous cardio+bodyweight only training programs.

What Iv'e been doing:
1) Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press (for physical balance/helps carrying a pack), Turkish Get Ups, and Single Leg Deadlifts
2) Low repetition with heavy weight to built strength without mass+"complex training protocol" involving rapid movement (eg box jumps after each set)
3)Cleans and Snatches-- to leave me gasping for air (and they seem to strengthen my grip)

The downside-takes a while to get used to going to the gym, being stuck indoors under the fluorescent lights...

My two cents- give weights a shot, don't hurt yourself, and if you don't like it after a month or so, you can stop.

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:13 pm
by jordansahls
Speaking about health in general, everyone should lift weights. It is the only thing that significantly slows age related muscle loss (sarcopenia) and helps to maintina bone density throught life (not to mention the cardiovascular benefits). Resistance training also helps with maintaining strength and function later in life which allows people to perform activities of daily living for longer. Thats why such organisations as the American College of Sports medicine (ACSM) and National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) both reccomend 2-3 days/week of resistance training at a minimum.

NSCA's position statement:
http://www.nsca-lift.org/publications/p ... ents.shtml

ACSM's position statements:
http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/pages ... ectionId=1

This graph Illistrates how resistance training can help with function throught a person's lifespan.
Image

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:29 pm
by MoapaPk
jordansahls wrote:Speaking about health in general, everyone should lift weights. It is the only thing that significantly slows age related muscle loss (sarcopenia) and helps to maintina bone density throught life (not to mention the cardiovascular benefits). Resistance training also helps with maintaining strength and function later in life which allows people to perform activities of daily living for longer. Thats why such organisations as the American College of Sports medicine (ACSM) and National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) both reccomend 2-3 days/week of resistance training at a minimum.

NSCA's position statement:
http://www.nsca-lift.org/publications/p ... ents.shtml

ACSM's position statements:
http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/pages ... ectionId=1

This graph Illistrates how resistance training can help with function throught a person's lifespan.
Image


What exactly are those two curves on the plot? Where do they come from?

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:49 am
by jordansahls
So the above chart comes from the World Health Association. Basically the two lines represent a range of effect that muscle mass and strength have on a person’s ability to function. The more lean mass you have (the upper line), and the more strength you posses the longer you will be able to perform ADL's (activities of daily living) before you reach the disability threshold.

As we age we loose muscle mass (sarcopenia) which makes it harder to perform basic activities. For example, the chart below shows the relationship between force production and motor units recruited (A motor unit is a motor neuron, located in the spinal cord, and all of the muscle fibers that it innervates). Basically, the more motor units you recruit, the more muscle that is involved. So a 1 rep max deadlift would, theoretically, be at the far right of the 1st graph below (graph A) while walking would be near the left. So the below graph is showing how muscle atrophy effects force production and recruitment. Using their numbers a healthy person requires 25% of their motor pool to activate the muscles necessary to produce enough force to step. Now, someone, say in their 80's that has lost a significant amount of muscle mass has to recruit 40% of their motor pool to produce the same step. Also, the maximum amount of force they can produce is significantly less. So activities, such as walking up the stairs or sitting up from a chair, require significantly more motor units to produce the necessary force. Often times, it becomes a maximal effort for the elderly. Image the effort you have to put forward to do a 1 rep max squat, now imagine that’s what it’s like getting out of your chair.

Returning to the original question, Resistance training helps to maintain muscle mass well into our latter years which in turn makes stepping, walking, sitting up, running, playing, climbing, hiking, opening a jar of pickles, and all other activities much easier.

recruitment.JPG
recruitment.JPG (52.3 KiB) Viewed 2448 times

Re: Consensus on Weight Lifting?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:37 pm
by CClaude
Endurance training will maintain bone density also, actually only those bones that are stressed during the activity (ie: runners will have a higher bone density in the legs but the arms aren't affected much).


What the plots don't show is the effect on the last stages of life which based on the plots I've seen, activity levels are maintained at a higher level as compared to the gemneral population, and only in the end does it decrease, ad it does so rapidly. Which for me is the way I want to go.