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The Chief wrote:I am happily married to the most wonderful woman on this planet!

She has no qualms with me climbing with another women. She trust me and knows I would never break our vows. I love her too much for even considering that. I have had several female clients and have had no issues.

Besides, when I go climbing, sexual/social relationships considerations are/have are NEVER in the plans.

I'm too busy focusing on the climb...period!

Amen!
If you're sig. other can't trust you to that degree then how in the hell would one expect a relationship over the long run to work?
Have people gotten so selfish and insecure that trust and respect no longer factor into a relationship? No wonder quacks like Dr. Phil & Oprah are profiteering off people now-a-days.
My girl and myself who do climb & scramble, mainly alpine, have no problem with the other heading out to the crags or to a mountain with another of the opposite sex.
We're completely comfortable with who we are, 100% implicitly 'into' the other and have tacit trust & respect for each other.
It's NOT even an issue. 'Bout as important as asking what's for dinner.

Shit. People need to wake the fuck up & realize jealousy is a really nasty emotion & have some faith in their S.O. for a change.

Haliku wrote:An interesting thread. In my opinion it is trust and communication between the couple. Sometimes that equilibrium is never reached. There were 'plenty' (~10%) of women on Denali this past season. For the wife/GF at home that could be a tough concept to accept, especially if they really don't understand mountaineering/climbing etc. Could something happen? Sure. Nothing is 100%. It’s usually not about the person going off climbing but is the insecurity/baggage of the one who is home worrying.

Can it be too many TV shows and celeb magazine planting the thought that cheating is the most common issue in our society?

Really good point.
Steph and myself would rather see the other one of us get out even if the other can't make it.

Icarreau wrote:If I didn't trust my spouse, then I wouldn't be married to her.

Truer words were never typed!

Bob Sihler wrote:

thoth wrote:

radson wrote:I like MoapaPk's answer the best. He asked his partner, sensed some discomfort and bailed. To me this shows respect and empathy rather than belligerent sanctimony.

+1

Yup. Totally the right thing to do and, I am glad to say, what I would do. I would tell my wife and see how she reacted, and go from there.

This is a really good alternative point to the arguement and despite what I typed, I do agree with this.

Everybody should just become swingers....lol

Trust is definitely the key word here. Since my high school days I have almost always been in the minority or the lone female in the group. My boyfriend (and now husband of many years) has never raised a jealous question or concern. Planning my bigger trips has often required long evening sessions at a male colleague's house but even then, no problem! I have always been open about trips etc. and when the opportunity comes, I introduce male hiking friends etc. to my husband. He knows we may all be sharing the same cabin or large tent or whatever. He also know that, just like many here on SP, I cannot survive if I don't get outdoors and do the things I love which also happen to be things he doesn't enjoy or can't do. The guys I hike with are often in an organized group so that helps their wives understand but sometimes even one of them will see me as a threat (Yeah, right - a 60 year old like me!). And for the record, I haven't camped/hiked/climbed etc. with just one other guy. I did do several trips with a girlfriend but those stopped after the murders along that section of the AT.

thoth wrote:

The Chief wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:I fit neither stereotype; I just don't like putting other people in pain.

Why would you be putting anyone in pain if you are just roping up for a climb?

This just don't make a lick of sense.... NONE!

roping up is one thing, spending the night with a member of the opposite sex when married?

If your SO doesn't trust you, it doesn't matter 'cuz the relationship is screwed anyway. The bottom line is that, if you are going to cheat, you are going to cheat. The idea that getting into a tent is going to make something happen that wouldn't happen otherwise is BS. A SO getting up tight about it isn't going to stop it from happening, either.

I am always asked by people "if the outdoors is such a big part of your life, why did you not marry someone who is as into the outdoors as you are." I always respond by saying, there are many other attribute that are more important to me. My wife does enjoy the outdoors and on summer day/weekend trips she joins me. But when it is cold or above her ability she does not want anything to do with it.

Mywife trusts me completely and I her. I am not a professional guide but I take females hiking, climbing, backpacking, mountaineering, biking, etc. in mixed company, in groups or just the two of us. I do not ask my wife all the time is she is ok with the trip. Mostly because she is helping plan most of the trips, and on those that are going to be me and one female she has suggested one tent and has said "if you get cold just snuggle up to David. He is a portable heater."

My frustation on this subject is I just lost one of the best climbing/mountaineering partners I have ever had because she does not want to do anything just the two of us.

FortMental wrote:What if you go solo and end up masturbating. Does that count as cheating?

And if you use your liner sock does your hand get jealous?

Seriously Martha, truly saddening when issues of this sort appear and are brought up.

I never think about the gender of the climber/s I may go out with for the day/s, week etc.

I always hope that they are motivated and willing to challenge themselves, be safe and have lots of fun. Those are the only issues that interest me when out on the rope.

You are more than welcome anytime if ya ever come to the Eastern Sierra, to give me a holler, climb, ski and if ya need a place to stay, my house is always welcome. Many here on SP have experienced that open hospitality and it is always open to you.

Thanks, Chief. I intend to take you up on that!

I agree, it's mostly disappointing that these questions and conflicts appear at all, particularly for those who are serious about mountaineering/climbing/the Great Outdoors and who also live with ethics and integrity. I agree with Kiefer and Haliku that it's all a matter of trust and if it isn't there, then that relationship is either doomed or smacks of dishonesty. While I completely understand the empathy that some show to their SO's when they see hurt in another's face, my take would be to use that as an opportunity to delve into the reasons for the hurt and negotiate a solution. I learned the hard way that giving up that which means most to me only delays the inevitable. So I don't make that choice any more. I also think it's unfair to expect someone else to play along with the ruse. So I'm not making that choice any more, either.

And yes, if there's too much energy left at the end of the day for shaggin', then the climbin' hasn't been challenging enough!

The Chief wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:I fit neither stereotype; I just don't like putting other people in pain.

Why would you be putting anyone in pain if you are just roping up for a climb?

This just don't make a lick of sense.... NONE!

Chief, I think I misread your intent. My apologies

I meant emotional pain, which seems to be a lot harder on folks than physical pain. I often put people through physical pain when they follow me for high altitude scrambles; but they are really putting themselves through the pain, as they get plenty of warning, and choose to accompany me. And in the vast majority of cases, they feel better about themselves in the end.

On the other hand, we've had at least three married pairs of friends, in the last 10 years, break up partly because they grew too close to their outdoor partners, who were not their spouses. The actual physical intimacy didn't take place when they were outdoors; but that's when the bonds were built. My wife can't help but remember them. Some moved on quickly; others still feel the sting.

We've been married 32 years, and trust each other more than most spouses.

MarthaP wrote:...I know women who’ll fuck anything that moves...

I'm surprised no one's asked for names or numbers.

My SO and I got into hiking and climbing together. I'm convinced the trust on both our parts comes from experiencing the outdoors as participants, knowing the difference between the backcountry and a singles bar. Granted, I'm older and am able to project the guilt from, and worthlessness of, an affair in light of the pricelessness of our relationship. Once you cross the line you can't go back. If you can't do the time...

I could be wrong, but it seems the mores of the young today are even looser than those of my sixties generation (sadly, as a fat teenager I'm afraid I was merely a spectator). When kids say, "It's only sex," I honestly think they're kidding themselves unless they're pathological.

I also think Chief and I share the same, ingrained sensibility in that, whether male or female, they're all friends. The benefits they come with are climbing compatibility and the shared love of the mountains. What happens in the backcountry doesn't really stay in the backcountry; it goes wherever you go.

hikinedd,

Great, clear thoughts. I think you've captured the essence of the question with your responses. I guess it's just a different generation, or sumpin'.

It's another lesson in this whole politics thing, how close to home it really is, and how important it is on all levels to understand and know your partner.

I was on a backpacking trip on the AT with my college's outing club. There were, including the two leaders, five guys and five girls. On our first night, we ended up camping about 100 yards away from a similar group from Bates College. We talked (not much cuz they're beneath us ) to the Bates group and learned some rather interesting stuff. Among other things, the Bates leaders had two tents, a guys tent and a girls tent, and woe unto him who entered the other gender's tent. Strict, zero-tolerance, policy.

Our leaders had a different approach. We had three tents, one for the leaders (a guy and a girl), and two group tents. We pitched all three and the leaders let us decide as a group what we wanted to do. I, along with one other guy and two of the girls, opted to pitch a tarp and go sans tent. The others all slept in one tent.

None of us saw anything wrong with this and nothing "improper" happened. However, when we told the Bates group, they were aghast. People need to lighten up.

woodsxc wrote:None of us saw anything wrong with this and nothing "improper" happened. However, when we told the Bates group, they were aghast. People need to lighten up.

Well now, this old-timer, who grew up in the 60s and 70s, went on many a trip where unmarried females and males shared the same shelter. I recall waking up next to a nude woman, who just happened to be bunking next to me. In winter, we were all so bundled that any intimacy was out of the question. In addition, hard work and stinky sweat do a lot to suppress hormones.

But that was then, before I was married.

You young bucks need to realize that you ain't doin' nothin' new.

Back in the day - when I was knee-high to a llama, I went on a field-trip with several

of the opposite sex who were very (well) entertaining and fun to be around.

We were all forced to spend the night in a cheap motel, and suddenly the authoritarian of

the group came in and separated the boys from the girls.


(In my later years, I was kinda glad it worked out that way!)

Sorry, I thought this was the BS thread.

Actually, experience is a good thing to have in a world of elves, trolls and fairies.