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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:39 pm
by John Duffield
Holy Fuck. Reminds me of MT Edith Cavell.

Has the earmarks of an FA allright. Or the first hike after the winter.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:27 pm
by Day Hiker
The colors and the rockfall remind me of some misery I have experienced in Zion. But the video could be from a lot of places.

It's hard to get an exact size estimate of that big rock, but a cube of sandstone whose measurements are 1m x 1m x 1m weighs over 5000 pounds. :shock:

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:51 pm
by ksolem
OK, since this is an Ethics, Spray and Slander forum I'll say it:

That guy is an idiot! And a person who would be under him there is a moron. The sad part is that if one or both of them had been killed or required a rescue the news media would have called them climbers.

Looks like Red Rocks to me but it could be a lot of places.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:01 pm
by Day Hiker
ksolem wrote:That guy is an idiot! And a person who would be under him there is a moron.


It's not a guy. Unless guys wear shorts like that. And have breasts.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:42 pm
by ksolem
Yes.

I wasn't really looking at it's figure that closely. Besides, I've seen guys wearing shorts like that at Red Rocks... you know, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas and all that.

Anyway now that the sex of the idiot and moron are established, nothing really changes...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:15 pm
by Guyzo
I like the way her helmet was strapped to her pack. 8)

Dingus, sad story.

When I go climbing, the most scarcest part is coming down giant boulder fields. I know that out there, somewhere, one of those blocks has my name on it........... :twisted:

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:02 pm
by Andinistaloco
What a jackass. Her partner's standing below her on a slope that bad, and instead of watching out for his safety or hers, he whips out the camera and films her coming down.

Tool.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:04 pm
by ksolem
Sorry if y'all think I am callous about this. Personally I exercise extreme caution in situations where there is dangerous loose rock. Getting crushed or crushing a friend is not on my to do list.

Dingus, your story is compelling, and your friend being killed is very sobering. I have to say though that I cannot imagine you or your buddies approaching dangerous terrain like that with the yahoo attitude displayed in the video. That is why I reacted the way I did.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:37 pm
by MoapaPk
If it was Zion (DH suggested this possibility), the rock can get amazing loose very quickly, and as almost no one goes in the backcountry, few slopes are pruned of loose stuff. You grab what looks like a secure sandstone ledge, and suddenly it comes off in your hand, followed by a few hundred lbs of junk. I'm amazed that Zion reports just one rockfall fatality.

This crap happens, and often there is little warning.

The one death in our outdoor club occurred when a guy stopped to put on his poncho, and a block let loose above him and crushed him. No one was up above; it was just rotten luck, with a light rain lubricating the rocks. People started shouting "rock, rock!" but he probably just heard the rustling of the nylon.

The traditional scramble route up "Indecision Peak" in Red Rock is up a horrible sand-and-talus gully that is just waiting to let loose. I've knocked a baseball-sized rock loose, and it fell down knocking free successive larger blocks, till the final meter-sized block came to rest on the edge of a cliff.

A lot of Sierra peaks are covered with such marginally stable stuff, just waiting to break loose.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:45 pm
by ksolem
As Guyzo can confirm, I like moving fast in all kinds of terrain. But I hate grovelling, preferring to "sneak" through stuff like that, hoping the mountain will remain unaware of my presence.

Sorry if I was harsh on the kids. My wife tells me I should be careful not to become an old curmudgeon.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:38 pm
by ksolem
Looks like we got 'em bracketed allright...

Image

(I've been waiting a while for an excuse to use that image. 50 Cal in naval guns means the barrel length equals 50x the diameter, so the 16" guns on the Iowa were over 65 ft long.)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:05 pm
by lisae
Dingus Milktoast wrote:I am a basher... in loose terrain like that I, what did Greg Child call it... I'm a groveller. I deal fairly well with the chaos of it all.

I was fascinated by Child's and Lynn Hill's opposing opinions about the chaos of mountaineering. In her book she describes her, well, terror of the alpine environment. And Child, in his book, told how Hill could dance up 5.12 free moves in Kazakhstan but when it came to descent was timid and shockingly slow.

As I have taught a few new climbers over the years... the ability to grovel in chaos is something I have observed. A lot of folks are terrified of loose terrain and never really adapt.

(I know I am not describing you brother)



No, you're describing me. I hate loose terrain.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:19 pm
by Andinistaloco
Dingus Milktoast wrote:Its was his clueless laughter I think, that really sets folks off to making blanket judgements about him and them, me included.


Part of it, no doubt. Another huge problem was that a differently shaped rock might have hit him, where he was standing.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:20 pm
by cp0915
MoapaPk wrote:If it was Zion (DH suggested this possibility), the rock can get amazing loose very quickly, and as almost no one goes in the backcountry, few slopes are pruned of loose stuff. You grab what looks like a secure sandstone ledge, and suddenly it comes off in your hand, followed by a few hundred lbs of junk. I'm amazed that Zion reports just one rockfall fatality.


Unfortunately, I almost added DH to that list when I knocked down some good-sized blocks in a steep, loose gully in Zion he and I were going up a few years back. Needless to say, I breathed a huge sigh of relief when he pulled out of the way just in time. Scary stuff.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:49 am
by John Duffield
lisae wrote:
Dingus Milktoast wrote:I am a basher... in loose terrain like that I, what did Greg Child call it... I'm a groveller. I deal fairly well with the chaos of it all.

I was fascinated by Child's and Lynn Hill's opposing opinions about the chaos of mountaineering. In her book she describes her, well, terror of the alpine environment. And Child, in his book, told how Hill could dance up 5.12 free moves in Kazakhstan but when it came to descent was timid and shockingly slow.

As I have taught a few new climbers over the years... the ability to grovel in chaos is something I have observed. A lot of folks are terrified of loose terrain and never really adapt.

(I know I am not describing you brother)



No, you're describing me. I hate loose terrain.


I just watched this again, this time with the sound on.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of loose terrain either. I was on terrain looser than that, twice this past year. There's no where to stand, nothing to grab onto, everything's in motion. Especially when it's really sodden with moisture. Mud, Bugs and Snakes in the mix. This, at least, looks dry. Can't understand why there's so much loose stuff.

A good point about the helmet. So, they'd been climbing and took the "easy" way down?