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Today, I was criticized about my first piece off the deck being "useless" by a total stranger. Well, excuse me, for being a bit neurotic about always making sure to put my first multi-directional piece off the deck to protect by belayer and prevent zippering effect. It was also my end of the day last climb, I was tired and the ground was slippery and wet, the rockface felt soggy, so I made sure I put one while I was on solid ground. Even if that piece was "useless" it didn't cause any harm (the only hypothetical harm I could think of is if it somehow caused some sort of rope drag, but the climb was shooting straight up on clean face), so what if it was "useless" as long as it was safe?

And why are you worried that someone is critiquing you for being too safe with useless gear?

It's your ass and your lead..... not theirs.

My Golden Rule,

"Better to have too much gear on lead, than not enough! Especially for a route that you have never done."

Just use the "F" word on em.

Really, try it, the results are very interesting.

Or use a snappy comeback, "the only thing useless is you".....

Knowing how to handle yourself is part of advanced rockclimbing.

Guyzo wrote:Just use the "F" word on em.

Really, try it, the results are very interesting.

Or use a snappy comeback, "the only thing useless is you".....

Knowing how to handle yourself is part of advanced rockclimbing.

Guyzo,

I like your comeback..... And I bet 9 to 1 this was in the Gunks.....

welle wrote:Well, excuse me, for being a bit neurotic about always making sure to put my first multi-directional piece off the deck to protect by belayer and prevent zippering effect.

Neurotic climber = safe/alive climber.

Obviously, this wanker thinks that the only purpose pro serves is to prevent a groundfall. I doubt he even knows what zippering is, and prolly climbs 5.12 at the gym but would wet himself making the step across at the beginning of P2 on Easy O.

Climb your own climb...anybody else can go f-off.

When in doubt, stitch it up. Not too many times I've regretted placing gear, though lots of times I've regretted not placing it.

One thing that climbing has taught me is that you should only do what you're comfortable doing. Too many stories of people getting hurt or dying because someone else told them, 'let's not rope up just yet; it's just short section; you can do it, etc., etc.' After all we do this because it's fun, not because we like getting hurt.

I've long ago ceased being surprised by how talky people are at the crags. What really kills me, is someone say 30 yo or so, telling me how they "Put the route up" (that's an expression that kills me), on a route we'd done longer than they'd been alive. And known that our ancestors had done it without any pro before we were alive.

Alpinisto wrote:

welle wrote:Well, excuse me, for being a bit neurotic about always making sure to put my first multi-directional piece off the deck to protect by belayer and prevent zippering effect.

Neurotic climber = safe/alive climber.

Obviously, this wanker thinks that the only purpose pro serves is to prevent a groundfall. I doubt he even knows what zippering is, and prolly climbs 5.12 at the gym but would wet himself making the step across at the beginning of P2 on Easy O........

I always love this one....

Should come out to our gym (Vertical Relief) in Flagstaff. Those 5.12 gym wankers are climbing 5.12/.13 cracks in the back country, except for that gereatric old Brit (no offense man since you still amaze me) who while is a sports wanker did put up one of the first E5 (or was it E6) in Britian.

As for the OP. If you see something, its a two edged sword and depends on who is saying it... I've seen someone in the Gunks on a well travelled 5.5 have every piece fall out, but didn't say anything since I wasn't sure how the leader would react and make a bad situation worse. So the question if you do see something is to say something or not.

Then I've seen the other side of the coin, whereas a total newbie once told my friend (who had put up A4 routes at altitude) what he was "doing wrong" when it was obvious that the newbie was "book learned".

Squishy, it was in the Gunks, in the area called Uberfall close to the parking lot - naturally the place is like one big gym, beta flying left and right.

CClaude, I normally don't mind if someone points out a mistake, but in this case the critic didn't want me to put what I thought was a crucial piece.

Chief and everybody, yes I should probably care less, it was just a bit unnerving as I was just about to start a route. I turned her out as soon as I left the deck, but my belayer said she kept going on and on, critiquing every piece I placed. Thanks, I feel better already, next time I'll be more expletive, Guy

CClaude wrote:I always love this one....

Should come out to our gym (Vertical Relief) in Flagstaff. Those 5.12 gym wankers are climbing 5.12/.13 cracks in the back country,

I don't doubt it, but I have also listened to someone brag about how easy a climb would be for him since he was a "5.12 climber." His partner laughed and commented that the guy had never climbed outside. "5.12 climber" bailed on the approach.

I once watched a guy french-free a 5.6, struggle for a good 2 minutes to clip a rope, build an excessively complicated anchor on new bolts to toprope. He comes down, sees me racking up for an unbolted climb next to him, turns to his friend and says "I wonder if he even knows how to use it."

This was also right next to a parking lot.

That other thread about climbers staying near parking lots has a point...the ones that do stick around the road sure like to talk the talk.

Like others have said...why not stitch the shit out of it and feel safe. It's your climb. Your ass.

When in doubt, sew that thang up GIRL and get that gear that you spend $1000's on, used and your money's worth.

You'll be so glad the day when you rip, and three or four of the first following pieces do as well. Yet that one extra one, held, and kept you form decking, well, that is why we carry all that shet!

That is why it is called..... PRO!

At Uberfall the climbs are soo close to the carriage road (on it) that one can be subject to many different types of situations. Sometimes it is a friend walking by and notices you and stops by to say hi and yes of course there are the beta freaks. In this location you can get it all, just the way it is there, a very social area.

F@ckem

Maybe you should get a taser.
Would it be considered rude to tase them?

I agree. Do what you need to do to keep your @$$ safe and don't care what anyone else think. If you are safe and comfortable with what you've done and how you've done it. That is what is important.

I'm just sort of disurbed by the tone of some of these posts and the girlie boy sports wuss posts. People are so ready to label people that do it different then they do. Good. As I've said in Mtnproject, f@&$'n pony up. Hell Alex Huber , Yuji Hiriyama, Tommy Caldwell and Josh Wharton are all sports climbers. Pony up and follow them for a day.

Who cares what they think and how they climb. Do it in the best style you know, be honest in what and how you do it and f@&$ the rest of them.