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Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:27 am
by WyomingSummits
mrchad9 wrote:His primary mistake Josh was as I noted above. No doubt mounting an expensive camera on top of the very gear that is supposed to protect you from falling objects is going to affect your split second instincts in a situation like this.

Instead of thinking about himself his arm lets go because he is worried about his camera up top. I've never understood the helmet cam concept and it looks to be it can create a bad event as well. Wonder if the fella learned anything?

That's how I saw it too. Personally, if I have a helmet and loaded pack on and a chunk of ice that size falls, I press in to the wall and let my helmet and pack do their job. Last thing I'd do is try to block it with my hand, which is what looks like happened. Instinctual......but stupid.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:38 am
by Josh Lewis
I wouldn't do a hand block! :lol: I've had rocks come my way on precarious slopes before. I certainly didn't do anything like that. :wink: If anything I'd say I did it pretty right (I put my head onto a rock over hang).

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:42 am
by WyomingSummits
Josh Lewis wrote:I wouldn't do a hand block! :lol: I've had rocks come my way on precarious slopes before. I certainly didn't do anything like that. :wink: If anything I'd say I did it pretty right (I put my head onto a rock over hang).

Exactly. That's why this type of video is a great reminder of things that can happen, and how human instinct can override better judgement. Watch the video over and over and rehearse what you would do in that situation.....imprint it on your brain. Even with years of practice, pro athletes succumb to human instinct when on the field in certain situations. How many times have we seen neck injuries in football because someone led with the top of their head? They're yelled at and disciplined for that from 8 yrs old, but in the heat of the moment.....instinct kicks in. It has to constantly be in the forefront of your mind...."If X happens, then Y is my response". Scary thing is how little he did to keep his crampons up......I kept waiting for him to start cartwheeling.....

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:45 am
by fatdad
Josh Lewis wrote:I wouldn't do a hand block! :lol: I've had rocks come my way on precarious slopes before. I certainly didn't do anything like that. :wink: If anything I'd say I did it pretty right (I put my head onto a rock over hang).

The first thing i thought when I saw this video is that tools have gotten so good that mediocre climbers are doing stuff ropeless that they would not have had the skill or esperience to climb with more primitive tools. Leashes aren't going to help you if you don't hang onto to yout tools. Your tools won't help if you don't know how to self arrest with them.

Him reaching up to block the chunk of ice isn't instinctual, it's stupid. If you were rock climbing and a rock came whizzing toward you, would you reach up and try to swat it with your hand or hunker down and hope it misses you? Instinct tells you to duck or move, mot shoo it away. Even if he swatted it with his hand, what was he going to do with a broken hand half way up some steep ice? The only thing this clip demonstrates is that noobs with Gopros are comfortable sharing videos of their bad judgment with the public. Glad he's OK but if I were him I'd find another hobby.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:00 am
by Josh Lewis
fatdad wrote:Glad he's OK but if I were him I'd find another hobby.


Or tone his adventure level way down and earn his way in. I know this from experience and have spent many years before even touching my tool on ice. Have I had some close calls? Yes!! But that doesn't stop me from climbing. But it does make me very conscience of the hidden dangers and makes me more alert of what I need to prepare for. And sometimes things happen which is precisely why I have toned my mountaineering down in the danger aspect. Eventually I'll be able to do greater things. But for now I'm happy to be at home safe from winters fury. 8) Trust me, I know what alpine fury looks like!

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:13 am
by Burchey
The Chief wrote:Fatdad nailed it.


This dude is a total Noob. Plain old noob that needs to stay home.

It is stupidity such as this that gives "climbing" in general a totally bad rap.


Let's go simul-solo Triple Couloirs... see if you still feel like judging guys for falling.


I seriously do not hope you are talking to me or others here (Fatdad, SLR etal) that have far more tougher shit than simul solo Triple Couloirs and have been at this game longer than you have been on this planet.

Didn't think so....


You'll be stoked to know - I made sure to build the anchor before calling "off belay" this weekend.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:58 am
by mrchad9
Yeah WI4 let go with both hands to wack at a three pound chunk of ice fall down forget to self arrest check your helmet cam and leave your axes up on the hill so you don't have to carry them up when you head back.

He looked like a pro.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:46 am
by mconnell
JC wrote:He couldn't be that much of a n00b, if he where a n00b he wouldn't be free soloing shit that you fags in Kali call top quality (big) routes, that stuff looked at least Kali WI4.


You don't slide down WI4. You bounce once in a while.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:00 pm
by mountainsandsound
JC: your commentary is relevant and insightful. Your contributions, obviously informed by your great wealth of experiences (such as that trip to NZ), are invaluable to summitpost. Please keep up the good work. I would like your input on every forum topic.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:34 am
by peladoboton
Given the softness of the ice/snow, and his unmatching tools with loose leashes, it makes me wonder if he had on soft crampons with hiking boots, and if that was the cause of the initial fall.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:43 am
by WillP
peladoboton wrote:Given the softness of the ice/snow, and his unmatching tools with loose leashes, it makes me wonder if he had on soft crampons with hiking boots, and if that was the cause of the initial fall.


Rather than the big piece of ice zeroing in on his head?

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:53 am
by WyomingSummits
WillP wrote:
peladoboton wrote:Given the softness of the ice/snow, and his unmatching tools with loose leashes, it makes me wonder if he had on soft crampons with hiking boots, and if that was the cause of the initial fall.


Rather than the big piece of ice zeroing in on his head?


It was his reaction to the big piece of ice. Every danger in mountain sports gets amplified with a poor reaction. We've all seen a noob on some sport route, 2 bolts off the deck pull up multiple arm lengths of rope because they're having trouble with the clip. As if MORE rope will help you pass it through the gate easier? All it does is increase their chance of decking when the inevitably pop off. They freak out and they react. Same goes with hurried rappels in the face of an oncoming thunderstorm. Yeah, lightning is coming, but CONCENTRATE on what you're doing......I caught a guy getting ready to back off 600ft off the deck....... only connected to one rope on a double 60m rappel. People freak out and either A. Never knew what to do to begin with, or B. Forget what to do because they haven't mentally/physically rehearsed it.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:10 am
by WyomingSummits
Ya know, it could always be worse. I had a buddy of mine take an 80 foot grinding like this on Stone Mountain NC. Second pitch up on an R rated route up and left from the Great Arch. He gets all antsy, presses his body in too close to the rock....and away he goes. At least he had the presence of mind to keep his feet up to keep from flipping over. His hands, knees, and butt were shredded. Anyone who has been on steep, runout friction knows what I'm talking about.

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:58 am
by G
so to recap the things that should not have been done, could have been done differently, and should have been done...

climber...

- should not have been climbing along the fall line
- could have anchored himself (?) where he is protected from falling objects
- should have not used his hand to try and block off the falling ice, and instead duck or do a matrix stunt (although the former would have addressed this)
- should have been quicker to self-arrest, so the slip does not become a fall
- should not have let go of his axes (or at least one of them)
- should have kept his feet higher to prevent cartwheeling

Re: Alpine climber survives fall - GoPro catches it all

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:22 am
by Baarb
For general info, this was on Snowdon in Wales according to the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21745250