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I absolutely concur the complications and contradictions that taking one's life might incur. To a degree, blazin, I empathize with your delineations regarding what's suicide and what's not. However

blazin wrote:the latter should have the courage and strength to face it

is a typical response to those who have never lived with or faced deep depression.

For them, it takes more courage to die than to live. It's like being stuck in a bottomless pit with absolutely no way out. It's impossible to change negative thought into positive, into a will to care or a will to even try. So to suggest strength and courage ought to be an automatic response is indicative of the inability of people to fully understand the ramifications of chronic/clinical depression, to want to learn about it, or to even want to talk about it - it's too embarrassing. Because it's intangible it doesn't really exist. Ignore it and it'll go away. Pull up your bootstraps and move on.

It just doesn't happen that way.

MarthaP wrote:is a typical response to those who have never lived with or faced deep depression.

This is hardly the right forum to discuss this at depth, but I do know both depression and suicide rather intimately. Much more intimately than I would like. And while I agree that telling someone to pull themselves up by the bootstraps does no good, I similarly believe that just telling them to pop some pills does no good either. Ultimately, crawling out of that dark hole is an act of will. It requires the help, care and guidance of others, to be sure, but if you don't have the desire to regain your own life, no one can do it for you. I realize my comment about "strength" might have been too facile or flippant, but it was most certainly not a result of ignorance.

Greatly appreciated. It's a hard topic to say the least. But I wonder why this forum would be any more difficult or inappropriate than any other? I'd say mountaineers have an especial grasp on the reality of death. How we get there is another story.

The book was excellent. But regardless of ones position on the right to die, this family had some issues. Guy's relationship with his boys wasn't very good and the book made it seem as if Guy Waterman was a very selfish person. He decides to take his life at a young age and in good health. Then the story behind his two sons living in Alaska, one being a very accomplished climber as well, and their troubles. Well, sadly this family had some real problems that were never worked out. Just my opinion.

Life is beautiful. Living is difficult. "Don't ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee". Who can dare to say what is in someone else's mind.