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Steve1215 wrote:--

Which brings me to the CRITICAL QUESTION...what minimal competencies define a REAL CLIMBER ?


To get hold of the wallet-sized "Real Climber Climber ID Card" issued by the AARC licensing body...you should minimally be able to:



--lead a sustained 5.9 crack without ever weighting the rope

--lead slabs with small edges, minimally rated 5.10a, with the possibility of at least two 18ft leader falls, without falling

--demonstrate competency in placing on lead (5.8+) small wired stoppers and hexentrics

--demonstrate competency in leading ice angled at least 55 degrees, while placing ice screws on lead

--lead a sport route rated at 5.10c, without falling or weighting the rope

--climb without a rope 4th-Class sections of rock
----

WTF is that pussy shit?


18 ft? More like 30-50' runouts.

55 degs? More like 80+ degs.

4th Class? More like 5.6 or less.

You forgot leading out 50 -100' sections of Hooking and #1 Head placement with potential of 75-100' whips... A4 or better!

Steve, you my friend ARE NOT a REAL CLIMBER and were in fact a Poser.

Mr Leghorn wrote:

JasonH wrote:

Mr Leghorn wrote:Here's question that the thread hints at, are climbers only those who always climb 5.+ routes, or occasionally do, or have a few times, or never have and only do scramble or do walk-ups? Should a scrambler be ignored?

???
You're going to have to spell that one out for me, Jason.

These "What are climbers" topics tend to get argumentative and I figured you knew that.

sorry, but someone had to step up and post this at some point in this thread, preferably long, long, looooooong ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JK5kChbRw

[/quote]

That is funny, Sharperblue! Monty Python at the Hollywood Bowl.

You know, I never dreamed that one day I'd be standing on a streetcorner in the middle of town, a lonely old guy with gray stubble on his chin, and talking to passerbys, anyone who will listen, about all the privations I suffered as a young rock climber in the 1970s. Kinda sad.

Monty Python's "biggus dickus" routine might have been even better for this thread...

---[/quote]

nah - i'm just a lil' monkey throwing sh*t at people It's a good thread - just needs more humor

I can't believe that no one has hijacked this thread though. Why, when I was a lad, we had to downclimb half a dozen off-width Grade VII 5.13c M7 A5' s on the South face of Annapurna upside down in the dark during a storm carrying three haul bags filled with rocks while singing Mariah Carey tunes with mouthfuls of broken glass and vinegar each day before supper.

"Luxury!"

Good one Steve.

Please stir the pot some more, really great reading.

And just because JB really climbed and sometimes didn't have time to socialize with everybody- all the time - is no excuse to call him an ass-hole.

He most certainly was not.

Guyzo

Guyzo wrote:Good one Steve.

Please stir the pot some more, really great reading.

And just because JB really climbed and sometimes didn't have time to socialize with everybody- all the time - is no excuse to call him an ass-hole.

He most certainly was not.

Guyzo

Ah, but Master Steve supposedly knows everything. . .

dskoon wrote:

Guyzo wrote:Good one Steve.

Please stir the pot some more, really great reading.

And just because JB really climbed and sometimes didn't have time to socialize with everybody- all the time - is no excuse to call him an ass-hole.

He most certainly was not.

Guyzo

Ah, but Master Steve supposedly knows everything. . .

I don't think Steve disrespected JB at all.

No one on this web site - me included - could come close to being the sort of climber John was.

Please have some respect for the dead.

Steve is right on with his perception about "today's climbers" .... And his qualifications list is about right.

Steve1215 wrote:--

Jesus Christ, did I call JB an asshole? No, no, no! I made a reference to average people perceiving the "elite" as snobs ie assholes, but that's never been MY point of view. I sat around a campfire one night and EE said JB had about 100x more talent than the next best rock climber; JB was the Michael Jordan of American rock climbing at one time. Very complex and artistic personality, but NOT and a-hole. Never!

--

Ah, ok. My apologies. Thought it was directed at you from some previous posts. . . Sorry.

Guyzo wrote:And just because JB really climbed and sometimes didn't have time to socialize with everybody- all the time - is no excuse to call him an ass-hole.

He most certainly was not.

Guyzo

Who on this thread GUY, called JB an "ass-hole"?



Perfect example of my point all along in this thread. Ones ill/mis perceptions of another actions or comments. And please, don't even begin to state that some folks out there that first encountered JB, did not "perceive" him as "arrogant and self-centered".

SoCalHiker wrote:

The Chief wrote:Really? You certainly never had the opportunity to meet this dude at the crag. Probably the best "Rock Climber" to have ever walked this planet and will remain in the history journals as such. But, in reality, to most that met him once at any crag he was working on, he was certainly the most arrogant, self-centered and insulting/condescending dude that they ever met. Only those that really knew him, knew different....

Chief, I think there exactly lies another problem in our culture/society that bothers me a lot. No doubt I can respect and admire such a person for his climbing skills. That however does not give him the right to be an asshole to others. He can of course do whatever he wants but others will see him as such. You have to be able to differentiate between his enormous skills as a climber and his shitty personality. You can admire him for the first thing, but you should disrepect him for the other. Being good at something does not give you the right to act like an asshole.

Btw, that same attitude underlies the celebrity worship in this country. People admire somebody for his talents (acting, sport, ...) and start idolizing him/her even though he/she might be the worst person.

Right here, Chief. Some Hiker called him that. Ruffled my feathers...

Guyzo wrote:

SoCalHiker wrote:

The Chief wrote:Really? You certainly never had the opportunity to meet this dude at the crag. Probably the best "Rock Climber" to have ever walked this planet and will remain in the history journals as such. But, in reality, to most that met him once at any crag he was working on, he was certainly the most arrogant, self-centered and insulting/condescending dude that they ever met. Only those that really knew him, knew different....

Chief, I think there exactly lies another problem in our culture/society that bothers me a lot. No doubt I can respect and admire such a person for his climbing skills. That however does not give him the right to be an asshole to others. He can of course do whatever he wants but others will see him as such. You have to be able to differentiate between his enormous skills as a climber and his shitty personality. You can admire him for the first thing, but you should disrepect him for the other. Being good at something does not give you the right to act like an asshole.

Btw, that same attitude underlies the celebrity worship in this country. People admire somebody for his talents (acting, sport, ...) and start idolizing him/her even though he/she might be the worst person.

Right here, Chief.

IN his defense Guy, SOCALHIKER never called JB an ass-hole. Never. There is a big difference here and I believe that his post is just as yours is, a total misperception. Acting like and being an are two completely different deals. And you damn well know that JB could indeed "ACT" in a very arrogant and self-righteous manner when he wanted to. Some indeed did perceive him in that fashion. Only those that really knew him, knew the real deal. Just as I posted.

Chief, I think there exactly lies another problem in our culture/society that bothers me a lot. No doubt I can respect and admire such a person for his climbing skills. That however does not give him the right to be an asshole

Maybe I don't read the language correctly. I guess it all depends on how one uses the word "him". I see it as a direct insult.

But back to the OP.

Steve is very correct.

"If you don't climb, you ain't shit"

This was a popular sentiment BITD.

borutbk wrote:that is music

No man. THIS is music ..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGigthgbpDI[/youtube]

The dude could definitely put out some notes ..

Icarreau.... good one, funny how the capital of Metal is now Scandinavia. Long cold freezing winters, cooped up in dark dank little basements really brings out the feelings of doom and death.

I figure Climbing and Music have the same arguments about what is and is not. It is hard to define music. One guy banging on a tin can or 90 people getting down in a orchestra, you pick what you think is music.

Climbing is sort of the same way. Everyone "climbs out of bed" in the morning. Its what one does after that that defines climbing.

Climbing Rocks is just a minor thing even to "climbers", and I don't expect to MANY people on this site to understand just what Steve1215 is trying to say. But he is correct.....

That was the sentiment back in the day, like it or not.

Today things are changing, I meet "Climbers" - who can climb 5.10 - who don't know who JB was and don't even talk about Walter Bonnitti, Gaston, Yvonne, Lynn Hill or any of the true greats of the sport. All they wish is to "do the moves" and not risk anything personally.

So now its time to get ready and go out climbing, on real stone. I have things to do around the house, my garage, the kitchen etc but screw all that....

Late...

Oh Steve1215.... ya gonna make it to the Tree for the Flanders deal???? Lots of people who you can talk to will show up.