Page 4 of 6

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:00 am
by MoapaPk
1000Pks wrote:Loose rock on class 3? Can hardly imagine, compared to the Sierra and Rockies!

Now if I can ever get someone who doesn't mind planet saving with carpooling and climbing together, in the next few years that I can still do any of this!


There is a special creepiness to loose rock in Zion -- especially the "sugar" (loose sand) that often coats slopes after a rain. There are a lot of slopes that increase slope as you descend, to a point where a slip has really bad consequences.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:16 am
by Matthew Holliman
zachary_dc wrote:
cp0915 wrote: It's also for sale at Zion Adventure Company in Springdale. Don't forget to dine at Oscar's.

Excellent I will pick it up there.
cp0915 wrote: Also, it has been a VERY snowy season in Zion, and most of the stuff in my book will be out of shape while you're there.

Thats awesome. Are there any that you think might be open for topping out on? I understand that summit means higher elevation and therefor more snow, but maybe there is something you write about that might be opened up? Thanks again!


My fiancee and I climbed Mt. Kinesava over President's Day Weekend. No snow on the ramp up Kinesava's East Face, but there was a good amount on the final summit pyramid--it was climbable without axes/crampons, but at least an ice axe would have been handy in places near the top.

And yes, CP's book is awesome.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:36 am
by zachary_dc
Matthew Holliman wrote:
My fiancee and I climbed Mt. Kinesava over President's Day Weekend. No snow on the ramp up Kinesava's East Face, but there was a good amount on the final summit pyramid--it was climbable without axes/crampons, but at least an ice axe would have been handy in places near the top.



I checked it out on SP and that looks exactly like something my group is wanting to do. It is a for sure. Thanks for info!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:11 pm
by cp0915
zachary_dc wrote:Are there any that you think might be open for topping out on? I understand that summit means higher elevation and therefor more snow, but maybe there is something you write about that might be opened up?


It's hard to say how conditions might change in the coming weeks, but I'll toss out a few possibilities:

-Kinesava (as Matthew said);
-Lady Mountain (a bit of 5th class);
-Angels Landing (might want/need crampons);
-Sneak Peak (might want crampons for approach; final bit to summit might be spicy);
-Checkerboard Mesa;
-East Mary (a short bit of 5th class);
-Crater Hill (the road in will be icy, so you might have to start walking from lower down);
-Coalpits Peak (will be in the next book; 5th class);
-The Little Altar (will be in the next book; class 3-4 and incredibly cool);
-I forget what I called it but there's a very minor peak just south of Kinesava that gave up surprisingly nice views. That'll be in for sure (it'll be in the next book);
-Cougar Mountain (expect snow, though it's relatively easy anyway);
-Moqui Peak (a bit of 5th class);
-Rosebud (should be in great shape; awesome views; will be in the next book);
-Observation Benchmark (better views than Ob. Point; I'd expect snow/ice on the approach);
-Deertrap Mtn. (probably some snow, but not particularly dangerous if you approach from the east entrance);
-Cable Mtn. (ditto above);

...

Prolly more.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:16 pm
by cp0915
1000Pks wrote:Really! I never liked steep friction that much, is there very much of that on the class 2-3 in Zion?


The problem, Pete, is that those class 2-3 slabs can quickly become class 4-5 slabs. And that's when it gets ugly!

I think now I'd hire a guide for NGA, it's one grudge peak for the last 30 years, for me! Any recommendations, there?


Pete, I've done NGA several times (via various routes and variations). I'm always up for another trip. I've got a tour of the mountain I could take you on that you'd love. Let's coordinate our schedules and I'll gladly take you up the thing. Anyone else who's been yearning to go can come along.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:27 pm
by cp0915
1000Pks wrote:...but I'd prefer to pay you good if that was legal in Zion, for you.


Pay is not necessary. I love the peak and would be honored to show it to someone who's wanted to climb it for 3 decades.

I'd just want to bag the peak, no traverses or harder routes for me. I read you have to do 3 rappels to get down, is that true?


I've never used a rope (up or down) on the standard route. I'll bring one along for you, and we'll have you do as many rappels as you need. No big deal.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:06 pm
by MoapaPk
I'd be up for NGA -- schedule allowing.

The rappels that I've seen (in TRs) look pretty low-angle -- the rope seems more to lend confidence on those steep sandstone ramps.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:29 pm
by cp0915
Sounds like a (vague) plan. Let's do it.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:39 pm
by MoapaPk
I'm working on a DNA sample to send to you.

Joking aside, I normally drive up to Zion the night before, because my damaged brain doesn't deal well with early starts and lack of sleep.

Aaron Johnson of SP has "hiked" with me, and I think he provides a believable reference.

Here's a video of me climbing on Zion-like rock:
http://hwstock.org/sent10/sen10b.mpg
(My voice isn't that high -- but the video was taken with someone's 5-year-old digital camera, it's not an MLC trick.)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:45 pm
by MoapaPk
Guides normally have to be registered for National Parks; but you can always treat CP to $150 worth of food at Oscar's :) .

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:59 pm
by MoapaPk
1000Pks wrote:Rather buy a new rope to be used on the climb, then given for the success. $150 worth of food at Oscar's? Is it a swanky place? Springdale?


I'm joking. $150 of food at Oscar's would kill most people.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:16 pm
by cp0915
Why all this talk of money? Why not keep the cash and just enjoy a day out in the hills with us? Good will does exist, as improbable as it seems. Or perhaps you prefer someone with "credentials," which you'll not find to take you up NGA.

Regardless, it's up to you, man. The offer's there. And I'll vouch for Moapa, who will vouch for me -- neither of us are homicidal maniacs. DB's the one you gotta worry about.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:54 pm
by cp0915
1000Pks wrote:Fees are an incentive for the guide to show up. I wouldn't want to drive my 2,000 miles to find you slept in...


Ask Rick Kent or MoapaPk or Day Hiker or Andinistaloco or Matthew Holliman or Dow Williams or SarahThompson or ... about me "sleeping in" on mountain days. Ask Day Hiker about the many, many times we met at 2 AM to go climb in Zion. Sleep in? Not gonna happen, Peter.

Besides, I'm obsessed with Zion, if you haven't already noticed. Do you really think it's likely I'm not going to participate?

Accidents do happen. If I suffered say a broken leg, there would be an insurance policy to pay with a responsible guide service, assuming I won in court.


Don't have any insurance that's gonna cover you, man. We go to NGA as new friends, helping each other out, each doing our part to try and keep the group safe. Nothing more; nothing less.

I've pretty much seen it all and done it all.


Seems a bit over the top. I've summited 1,000 different mountains and haven't seen the tip of the iceberg. There's so much to this world, Peter. Let's go see some of Zion together.

A Vegas meet up on me is in the works, given you guys can agree on a time and place.


Lemme know. I look forward to it.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:44 pm
by cp0915
It's your world, man. Just lemme know when you wanna climb NGA and we'll see if we can put a plan together.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:07 pm
by cp0915
May/June is an awesome time for NGA. I'll be gone for much of the summer (mid-June to early August, that is). Fall is good for me too.