SummitPost.org

I asked this yesterday but deleted it because it really wasn't the right thread for it, so here's a poll.

Please feel free to discuss pros and cons. We'll wait at least a week before doing anything.

And if you're in favor, how long should the time limit be? One minute, three, five, ten? Something else?

By the way, although each member can only vote one time, I've enabled the poll so that you can change your vote if the discussion among members leads you to change your mind.

By the way, this is not directed at or inspired by any one person or group of people or by any recent event. It has come up before, but I never gave any thought to it until yesterday when it occurred as an afterthought during a discussion about embedded quotes.

if "posts" means "posts in forums" I think they shouldn't never be changed or deleted
maybe this way some people stops writing silly things

gabriele wrote:if "posts" means "posts in forums" I think they shouldn't never be changed or deleted
maybe this way some people stops writing silly things

To clarify, it would mean that the poster could not edit or delete his own post after a certain period of time, so that would actually support what you are saying.

What the...


why on earth?
It's perfectly fine right now, when it shows it has been edited



stupid idea!!
REALLY REALLY stupid idea

It has happened more than once, that I have come back a few hours later, realised that my post wasn't very well written
the wording maybe too harsh, easily interpreted in an unwanted way as inflammatory or mean or something
now I wouldn't be able to delete or redo it so it says what I really wanted it to say?


who has come up with such a silly idea? and WHY?
Who has this need to control other people so much?
Hey, the world ain't perfect, nor is people
and the forums definitely are not

Don't mess with things that don't need to be messed with



Guess what I voted

Besides, who says Summitpost owns my posts?
Off-Route is one thing, but the other forums - there might be stuff & info the member owns.
With the right to delete or not. Copyright, to put it simple.

If this goes through, I want all my posts deleted first.

Lolli wrote:Besides, who says Summitpost owns my posts?
Off-Route is one thing, but the other forums - there might be stuff & info the member owns.
With the right to delete or not. Copyright, to put it simple.

If this goes through, I want all my posts deleted first.

What do you mean with "own your posts"? You post something which is out there in a public forum, free for everybody to see, read, ... there is no copyright for what you say here. It's not a published work.

gabriele wrote:if "posts" means "posts in forums" I think they shouldn't never be changed or deleted
maybe this way some people stops writing silly things

A very good reason for a time limit.

Lolli wrote:It has happened more than once, that I have come back a few hours later, realised that my post wasn't very well written
the wording maybe too harsh, easily interpreted in an unwanted way as inflammatory or mean or something
now I wouldn't be able to delete or redo it so it says what I really wanted it to say?

A very good reason against a time limit.

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I have no position on this and am not voting. All I'm doing is following up on a past idea that was "bumped" in my mind yesterday during another discussion. This is why I'm bringing it to the community for discussion.

It is also possible to limit one without limiting the other.

And it will take more than a small majority to result in a change. I am thinking something more like 2:1, with a lot of votes involved. If a small number of people vote, that will be a signal that the issue is not very important to forum users.

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With the right to delete or not. Copyright, to put it simple.

Once someone quotes you, that becomes out of your hands, though, unless you ask moderators to intervene or other people to delete their posts. Once it's out there in the forums, it's out there for all intents and purposes. Even if we use the tool to delete someone's posts, all quoted posts, with the name, remain. Page content is different, of course.

SoCal, don't use legal language when you clearly have zero familiarity with the law.

In nearly all countries, anything you write is automatically subject to copyright. You own the copyright on your writing, regardless of whether it's "published" or not. (But for the record, a public forum like SummitPost certainly qualifies as "publication" in areas of the law where "publication" does matter.)

*Which* rights you have under copyright is more variable depending on jurisdiction. In the US, an author would NOT have a right under copyright law to delete things they've written on a website owned by somebody else (but they might have a contractual right, if the website had promised them that they could, maybe even if the website had simply had a tradition of allowing it and changed its policy without warning). Some European jurisdictions recognize "moral rights" related to copyright, which allow authors additional control of their works, though my guess is they don't include a universal right of deletion like Lolli would apparently like.

PS I just edited this post: I'd written "where you live" when I really meant "jurisdiction". Where you live is a factor in jurisdiction, but far from the only one.

I have a guess at what's motivating the idea of a time limit for edits. There have been cases of name-calling and similar misuse of the forums, where somebody retaliates in a subsequent post, and then the original provocateur edits his post to something innocent-seeming in order to avoid punishment from the elves, without acknowledging any wrong-doing.

That tactic would be a lot less effective if the forum simply displayed "this post edited on (date&time)" automatically. Not a perfect solution, but neither are time limits. A time limit seems pretty arbitrary, and doesn't solve the problem at all if the provocateur is aware of the time limit - odds are good a response will occur before the time limit elapses.

SoCalHiker wrote:

Lolli wrote:Besides, who says Summitpost owns my posts?
Off-Route is one thing, but the other forums - there might be stuff & info the member owns.
With the right to delete or not. Copyright, to put it simple.

If this goes through, I want all my posts deleted first.

What do you mean with "own your posts"? You post something which is out there in a public forum, free for everybody to see, read, ... there is no copyright for what you say here. It's not a published work.

Today, I own my posts.
I can delete them.
I can change them.
Nobody else can do anything to my posts. (Except administrators of course.)
A change of rule affects the past, when it didn't exist. The agreement between the site and the member has so far been that the posts are deletable and editable. Or would it only affect posts from now on and forward?

Well... the fact that it's "a public forum, free for everybody to see, read" is of no consequence whatsoever for the copyright question. There are other arguments against them being copyright, but there are also posts which holds such a level that they will fall under copyright laws.

For instance, it has happened that people have written about a possible FA, realised later that they don't want that information out there.
Or similar things.
No, I don't think it's a good idea.

I also don't think it's a good idea for the reasons state above.

Lolli wrote:It has happened more than once, that I have come back a few hours later, realised that my post wasn't very well written
the wording maybe too harsh, easily interpreted in an unwanted way as inflammatory or mean or something
now I wouldn't be able to delete or redo it so it says what I really wanted it to say ?

So, you can change the meaning of your posts and the ones that answered may look stupid
example :
I say "Lolli is a great climber"
Lolli answer = "True"
I change my post in "Lolli should think better before posting"
and Lolli MUST say True !!!

nartreb wrote:SoCal, don't use legal language when you clearly have zero familiarity with the law.

In nearly all countries, anything you write is automatically subject to copyright. You own the copyright on your writing, regardless of whether it's "published" or not. (But for the record, a public forum like SummitPost certainly qualifies as "publication" in areas of the law where "publication" does matter.)

*Which* rights you have under copyright is more variable depending on jurisdiction. In the US, an author would NOT have a right under copyright law to delete things they've written on a website owned by somebody else (but they might have a contractual right, if the website had promised them that they could, maybe even if the website had simply had a tradition of allowing it and changed its policy without warning). Some European jurisdictions recognize "moral rights" related to copyright, which allow authors additional control of their works, though my guess is they don't include a universal right of deletion like Lolli would apparently like.

PS I just edited this post: I'd written "where you live" when I really meant "jurisdiction". Where you live is a factor in jurisdiction, but far from the only one.

well, I am so glad that you stepped in then

gabriele wrote:maybe this way some people stops writing silly things

I agree with Gabriele on that one. Certain people would finally start thinking before posting. It's cowardly to say something and then change it later because it backfired somehow. If you really change your mind later or regret what you said, then post it. Simple. If you give an interview or a speech you can't take it back later also. Stand up for what you said and post an apology or explanation if you feel like it later.